Useful Online Resources

Mega Zarak · Unread post by **Mega Zarak** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:27 am

I'm not sure if this thread has been posted before even though I've seen some similar posts (if yes, mods please merge them when you're free, thanks!

).

I've seen this in another forum and I think it's a good idea to gather all the useful online resources pertaining to the topic of our discussion in a single thread.

Here're some of the URLs:

http://www.threekingdoms.com
A complete English translation of SGYY by C. H. Brewitt-Taylor with commentary by Dr Rafe de Crespigny

http://xf-www.hb.cninfo.net/sanguo/lish ... index.html
Online Chinese version of SGZ without Pei Song Zhi's commentaries. Good for Chinese readers but useless for people who don't know Chinese.

http://www.guoxue.com/shibu/24shi/sangzz/sgzzml.htm
Another online Chinese version of SGZ, but this time, there's Pei Song Zhi's commentaries.

http://xf-www.hb.cninfo.net/sanguo/lish ... index.html
Online Chinese version of the Book of Later Han (containing biographies and other stuffs pertaining to the Eastern/Later Han period, i.e. starting from Liu Xiu till the end of Liu Xie). Some sections of it maybe useful as cross-referencing materials when analysing the Three Kingdoms Period.

http://www.shuku.net:8080/novels/histor ... /zztj.html
Online Chinese version of Zi Zi Tong Jian. A historical compilation by Sima Guang. Some sections of it maybe useful as cross-referencing materials when analysing the Three Kingdoms Period.

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Di ... sanguo.htm
A website describing briefly each of the Chinese dynasties. Good for beginner who wants to know about Chinese history, including the Three Kingdoms Period.

http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/mil_org.html
The Later Han Military Organization by Rafe de Crespigny

Of cos, we shouldn't forget KMA.

That's all for now. I'll add more when I find them.

Unread post by **Lady Wu** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:46 am

Thanks again Chris for the awesome information! Now I can save up instead of buying HHS and ZZTJ...

Just a question: what decoding software do you use to read the Chinese sites? I can see most of the characters but some of the more obscure ones my browser just gave up on.

Unread post by **James** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:21 am

Here are a few English sites for bums like me that can only read a handful of hanzi.

http://www.mystique-graphics.com/china/
(Doesn't compare with the Chinese sites, but has some very useful information. Contains some nice Three Kingdoms information).

http://www.gotheborg.com/chronology/ind ... nology.htm
(Another helpful English Chinese history resource, not big on Three Kingdoms).

Lady Wu wrote:Just a question: what decoding software do you use to read the Chinese sites? I can see most of the characters but some of the more obscure ones my browser just gave up on.

The sites are set to use hanzi for character display, so it should be up to the browser and the fonts installed on your system. If you have complete Chinese fonts and a browser modern enough to display the characters there shouldn't be a problem. If possible, I would upgrade to Internet Explorer 6 (using the latest patch) and Windows. (Older copies of Windows like 3.1, NT, and '95 may need language packages. All a shot in the dark, I hope some of it helps.

(I am making this thread sticky).

Zhou Gongjin · Unread post by **Zhou Gongjin** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:28 am

Anything new to share?
KMA may not host entire books I still say we're better than those sites. We're the only english RTK site with this much information and so much pending.

Mega Zarak · Unread post by **Mega Zarak** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:23 am

Zhou Gongjin wrote:Anything new to share?
KMA may not host entire books I still say we're better than those sites. We're the only english RTK site with this much information and so much pending.

Yes, most of the translators and writers did a great job for those articles at KMA except one particular translator named BR. He can be rather careless in his translations. Sometimes when he's tired, he tends to paraphrase certain stuffs and may end up omitting some information or worse, make mistakes. Also, for some reasons, he did not include Pei's annotations in all of his bios. As a result, some of the additional information from other sources are not available. Hence, it's best for readers not to take BR's translations as hard, solid facts but to do some cross-referencing whenever possible. For that to be possible, one has to either read other translators' works or inevitably understand Chinese and read the original texts. That's when the Chinese sites offering the original texts become useful or even necessary.

Unread post by **Lady Wu** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:32 am

Great Deer you are way too funny

I've been thinking for a while too that LS's early translations need to be redone. Maybe we can trade?

Given your productivity level, you probably will have all those websites translated for us in a week or so

.

Mega Zarak · Unread post by **Mega Zarak** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:46 am

Lady Wu wrote:Great Deer you are way too funny I've been thinking for a while too that LS's early translations need to be redone. Maybe we can trade?

I hope you don't regret saying this.

Lady Wu wrote: Given your productivity level, you probably will have all those websites translated for us in a week or so .

I'm afraid I can only lax for this week or so since I'm doing my simulations. After which, my life may change again when the journals come.

Anyway, a word on the Chinese sites that I've mentioned. I've checked, whenever I find the need to, the contents of the online SGZ with those in my books. I have yet found any discrepancy but still, it's good not to take things for granted.

Zhou Gongjin · Unread post by **Zhou Gongjin** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:40 am

I have been thinking of rewriting the SGZ bios to improve readability. No offense, honestly they are wonderful, but I think factual records are quite dull sometimes and need a bit of creativity.

Unread post by **James** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:05 am

I make it a point to question everything I read and I love comparing biographies to see contradictions. The only problem with those SGZ translations by humble people like BR and LS is that I cannot compare them with anything but odd historical tidbits I find on forums like this one. It is a vicious little circle I tell you, for those of us that are unable to read the San Guo Zhi.

All in good time.

Zhou Gongjin wrote:I have been thinking of rewriting the SGZ bios to improve readability. No offense, honestly they are wonderful, but I think factual records are quite dull sometimes and need a bit of creativity.

Only if specifically requested by the original translator or author. It is bad etiquette to edit another's work on that level without an actual request (be it a small essay or a SGZ biography). There is also the concern of changing subtle meanings by making small editing mistakes. As a matter of fact there are many more reasons why this sort of thing should be left to the original translator (if done at all), including the fact that a translation is expected to be true to the original.

Zhang Ren · Unread post by **Zhang Ren** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:16 am

I know this is not related to the RTK period, but does anyone know where I could find the rest of the other 25 Official Chinese Historical Records especially ShiJi by SiMa Qian