Are you a virgin?

[WeiWenDi]

I've had an experience recently which makes me want to revise my earlier position in a drastic, drastic way. Well, maybe not revise, but rather append. I originally said that keeping one's virginity until marriage is not necessary to be a good person, and I still believe that. But man, does one avoid a hell of a lot of pain if they don't do what I did. My V-card came back to bite me in the arse, so to speak.

Basically, we went through a really messy break-up that involved her getting into a long-distance one-sided spitting match with my parents, and I just lost all respect for her after that. She kept pestering my mother with abusive phone calls after we broke up, and kept sending me e-mails in much the same tone. And then recently she came to my workplace to basically try to convince me to leave my wife and daughter and come back to her, and threatened me with God's punishment if I didn't. And now she's back to sending me abusive e-mails, and she's convinced that she has rights over me because she took my virginity.

Given the huge mistake I made there, I'm seriously considering taking the tack that it's really best to leave off sex for marriage, and make sure that each partner has a solid relationship with the people that are most important in your life, and not just you - not to mention similar attitudes, similar interests, similar personality and similar perspectives on life and the world. I'm not interested in 'purity' that much unless by 'purity' you mean purity of heart and clarity of intentions. But sex just isn't the most important thing in life, and the people who seem to think it is are, in my experience, also some of the most despairing and miserable.

Anyway, just my random thoughts on the topic now. Based on my entirely anecdotal experience, of course, so feel free to ignore it.

[Shikanosuke]

I've had an experience recently which makes me want to revise my earlier position in a drastic, drastic way. Well, maybe not revise, but rather append. I originally said that keeping one's virginity until marriage is not necessary to be a good person, and I still believe that. But man, does one avoid a hell of a lot of pain if they don't do what I did. My V-card came back to bite me in the arse, so to speak.

Basically, we went through a really messy break-up that involved her getting into a long-distance one-sided spitting match with my parents, and I just lost all respect for her after that. She kept pestering my mother with abusive phone calls after we broke up, and kept sending me e-mails in much the same tone. And then recently she came to my workplace to basically try to convince me to leave my wife and daughter and come back to her, and threatened me with God's punishment if I didn't. And now she's back to sending me abusive e-mails, and she's convinced that she has rights over me because she took my virginity.

Given the huge mistake I made there, I'm seriously considering taking the tack that it's really best to leave off sex for marriage, and make sure that each partner has a solid relationship with the people that are most important in your life, and not just you - not to mention similar attitudes, similar interests, similar personality and similar perspectives on life and the world. I'm not interested in 'purity' that much unless by 'purity' you mean purity of heart and clarity of intentions. But sex just isn't the most important thing in life, and the people who seem to think it is are, in my experience, also some of the most despairing and miserable.

Anyway, just my random thoughts on the topic now. Based on my entirely anecdotal experience, of course, so feel free to ignore it.

I'm wagering that's not a side-effect of sex before marriage, but the product of an insane/unhealthy female/individual. My sympathies!

EDIT: Also, had no idea you had children. If thats new, congratulations!

[WeiWenDi]

I'm wagering that's not a side-effect of sex before marriage, but the product of an insane/unhealthy female/individual. My sympathies!

EDIT: Also, had no idea you had children. If thats new, congratulations!

Many thanks, Shik - on both counts! Yeah, my ex wasn't exactly what we'd call the most stable of people, and unfortunately it took her treatment of my mother for me to really realise that. There were signs even before then, though...

Yep, little WeiWenGongZhu is about 16 months old now, able to say 'baba', 'mama' and 'bye-bye', and able to walk on her own (but only just!). We're a little concerned about her calcium intake since she still only has six teeth. But overall she's doing pretty well!

[Boydie]

I've had an experience recently which makes me want to revise my earlier position in a drastic, drastic way. Well, maybe not revise, but rather append. I originally said that keeping one's virginity until marriage is not necessary to be a good person, and I still believe that. But man, does one avoid a hell of a lot of pain if they don't do what I did. My V-card came back to bite me in the arse, so to speak.

Basically, we went through a really messy break-up that involved her getting into a long-distance one-sided spitting match with my parents, and I just lost all respect for her after that. She kept pestering my mother with abusive phone calls after we broke up, and kept sending me e-mails in much the same tone. And then recently she came to my workplace to basically try to convince me to leave my wife and daughter and come back to her, and threatened me with God's punishment if I didn't. And now she's back to sending me abusive e-mails, and she's convinced that she has rights over me because she took my virginity.

Given the huge mistake I made there, I'm seriously considering taking the tack that it's really best to leave off sex for marriage, and make sure that each partner has a solid relationship with the people that are most important in your life, and not just you - not to mention similar attitudes, similar interests, similar personality and similar perspectives on life and the world. I'm not interested in 'purity' that much unless by 'purity' you mean purity of heart and clarity of intentions. But sex just isn't the most important thing in life, and the people who seem to think it is are, in my experience, also some of the most despairing and miserable.

Anyway, just my random thoughts on the topic now. Based on my entirely anecdotal experience, of course, so feel free to ignore it.

Wow! That's nuts! She played the religious card. Hope nothing like that happens to me in the future.

[SunXia]

"Virginity" Facts:

It's an entirely pilosophical belief and impurity test that you are entirely socialised into thiniing is real.

You are only a Virgin if you choose to identify as a Virgin, which is fine, the same way you can identify with any philosophical belief.

But Virginity itself, is not material.

Inexperience is material.

Skills are material.

Virginity is immaterial.

There is no magic test, or examination that a doctor, a scientist, a biologist or whatever expert you want to appeal to, can do that can "demonstrate" that a vagina or penis etc has engaged in penetration unless literal lacertaion has occurred, which heals.

Every time they try to "test" vaginas fr penetration they can't get a coin toss correct, half the time, yes scientists guess correctly 25% of the time for a coin toss.

Importance in this concept is deeply individual and anecdotal.

Nobody will ever know.

And scientists, psychologists, physiotherapist, psychiatric professionals, gynae professionals, advise that it is healthy to explore as much as you feel comfortable, you comfort and nobody elses, being your healthcare professionals main objective and should be yours, noody elses.

It's very healthy to write down why you want to have sex, if you want to have sex. What you get out of sex. Out of intimacy. Out of desire. Out of Arousal. All very different things and that don't need to come into play. Helps make this not a conflict for you and realise when you were making conflict mentally, and emotionally, and socially, and even physically, before.

[WeiWenDi]

Parts of this are true. Parts of this are not.

It's an entirely pilosophical belief and impurity test that you are entirely socialised into thiniing is real.

You are only a Virgin if you choose to identify as a Virgin, which is fine, the same way you can identify with any philosophical belief.

But Virginity itself, is not material.

No, virginity is not a philosophical belief. Philosophy relates to the inquiry into the nature of knowledge and seeks to deflate beliefs which are not based in logic and evidence.

Virginity is simply, definitionally, the state of never having had sexual intercourse. A virgin is simply a person who has never had sex. That's all. If we're talking about philosophy: virginity is not a belief, still less an 'identity', but simply a fact-claim. Whether or not a person fits the definition of 'virgin', is something that can be true or false. And the truth or falsity of that claim is based on material conditions and events. That's basic logic.

On the other hand, there are a bunch of cultural practices and norms around and concerning virginity, which are based in various belief systems, and which can be subjected to ethical and psychological scrutiny. Some of these beliefs and norms are healthy. Others can be quite harmful.

There is no magic test, or examination that a doctor, a scientist, a biologist or whatever expert you want to appeal to, can do that can "demonstrate" that a vagina or penis etc has engaged in penetration unless literal lacertaion has occurred, which heals.

This part is very much true. The two most common 'tests' for virginity are... not based in scientific fact, and by this point have been broadly debunked in the relevant medical literature. That is to say, these tests cannot demonstrate whether or not the person being examined has had sexual intercourse with any kind of reliability. Not to mention the much more problematic aspect that one of these 'tests' can be particularly invasive and traumatising to the woman being 'tested'.

There are, however, medical best practices for women or families seeking a virginity 'test'. These best practices are not invasive and psychologically-traumatising, are voluntary, and do not involve scientifically-inconclusive procedures and medically-incorrect beliefs about the hymen.

It's very healthy to write down why you want to have sex, if you want to have sex. What you get out of sex. Out of intimacy. Out of desire. Out of Arousal. All very different things and that don't need to come into play. Helps make this not a conflict for you and realise when you were making conflict mentally, and emotionally, and socially, and even physically, before.

This is generally sound advice.

Not that all conflict can be avoided with a sexual 'interest inventory', but it can be a good starter for clear communication and boundaries.

[SunXia]

Philosophy relates to the inquiry into the nature of knowledge and seeks to deflate beliefs which are not based in logic and evidence.

Which is what Virginity is, within the context of romantic or sexual expression, the philosophical debate over the purity levels of a person involved.

If it wasn't, there wouldn't be those who wonder about the different levels of Validity.

Some people would identify as sexless and not bring Virginity, or its complex notions, into it at all.

If it was such a simple concept, they wouldn't need to further tell girls not to engage in heavy petting, or anal sex, or oral sex, or titty sex, or armpit sex, or Cunnilingus (etc etc) but they do, they constantly debate over the levels a "pure" person, mostly women, can go to, before the social unit and communal unit will see her as something to be fixed, or shunned, or locked up.

[WeiWenDi]

Which is what Virginity is, within the context of romantic or sexual expression, the philosophical debate over the purity levels of a person involved.

'Purity' is a different concept than 'virginity'.

I don't think I should have to explain why.

Cultural norms are not the same thing as facts about the world, or about a person's experiences.