ROTK 8 is getting a remake; released 2024

[Yoshitaka Ouchi]

There's new skills?

I'd rather they either leave Infamy alone or expand upon it further since it's a defining hallmark of RTK8 and other games that have it. It allows you to actually become a villain in the eyes of the world, and there are even events in place for a heroic player to fight a villainous ruler such as to liberate the Han Emperor. Sadly, it's rather limited as it is in 8 but it's awesome that it even exists and ought to continue existing for immoral choices such as raiding the commoners of neighboring cities or greenlighting decisions such as taking bribes to falsely imprison business rivals of a shady merchant, use the Imperial Seal to declare yourself the Emperor, or ransacking your capital and its population in self-preservation to really have meaning in the world.

If anything, I think every Nobunaga/RTK game should have an Infamy (or similar, such as PR) system measuring how many evil actions you/NPCs have committed since it serves an effective check against the immoral-but-efficient tactics we often have and also greatly adds to role-playing and interpersonal dynamics.

Somebody despising you coming to murder you is pretty sensible; I just think it should be settled via duel, with a champion for the defender when available, so that you aren't simply rolling dice.

Overall, though, I prefer more randomness and craziness to less of these things since playthroughs of these games are better defined by the things that go beyond our control and predictions than the times everything went according to plan and the game more or less played itself.

[Gray Riders]

There's new skills?

You can see in the teaser that it seems to now have duelling skills like in X: they're called Critical, Martial Arts, Concealment, Agility, Focus, and Brute Strength. Unsurprisingly Lu Bu has them all at level 3 except Concealment at a "mere" 2.

I'd rather they either leave Infamy alone or expand upon it further since it's a defining hallmark of RTK8 and other games that have it. It allows you to actually become a villain in the eyes of the world, and there are even events in place for a heroic player to fight a villainous ruler such as to liberate the Han Emperor. Sadly, it's rather limited as it is in 8 but it's awesome that it even exists and ought to continue existing for immoral choices such as raiding the commoners of neighboring cities or greenlighting decisions such as taking bribes to falsely imprison business rivals of a shady merchant, use the Imperial Seal to declare yourself the Emperor, or ransacking your capital and its population in self-preservation to really have meaning in the world.

I don't think Infamy should be removed--in fact I'd love to see more infamy generating options like getting gold through embezzling or Pan Zhang style corruption--but made a big more sane in terms of speed and scale. Becoming Infamous because you're raiding enemy lands or actively corrupt makes sense, but the way it worked in the original meant that, for instance, Liu Bei executing Zhang Ren is seen as a big problem, or as a Japanese review notes turning down an especially demanding beggar instantly makes you a coalition target.

Somebody despising you coming to murder you is pretty sensible; I just think it should be settled via duel, with a champion for the defender when available, so that you aren't simply rolling dice.

I think there needs to be safeguards or some level of planning to assassinate someone; otherwise you'll have post Yiling Zhang Fei just goes into Jianye and kills Sun Quan because Wu has nobody who can beat him in a duel, which is a pretty absurd thing to happen.
Or if you want to get really weird, a strategy of Lu Bu trying to get his sworn siblings killed so he can easily kill enemy rulers quickly and easily.

[Yoshitaka Ouchi]

You can see in the teaser that it seems to now have duelling skills like in X: they're called Critical, Martial Arts, Concealment, Agility, Focus, and Brute Strength. Unsurprisingly Lu Bu has them all at level 3 except Concealment at a "mere" 2.

I see. The way dueling worked in 8 was kinda busted since it was easy to win 99% of the time regardless of statistical differences because all you had to do was spam high energy moves to win, and recover stamina while under high energy parry or counter as-needed.

I don't think Infamy should be removed--in fact I'd love to see more infamy generating options like getting gold through embezzling or Pan Zhang style corruption--but made a big more sane in terms of speed and scale. Becoming Infamous because you're raiding enemy lands or actively corrupt makes sense, but the way it worked in the original meant that, for instance, Liu Bei executing Zhang Ren is seen as a big problem, or as a Japanese review notes turning down an especially demanding beggar instantly makes you a coalition target.

That's never happened to me, and I've played RTK8 for many thousands of hours over the years, so I'm skeptical of how serious an oversight the latter two things are especially since joining commoners in their festivals was an easy way to lower Infamy. It also works as another reason to avoid mass executions (or executing aside from VIPs) simply because the penalties for being notorious are substantial.

The infamy system isn't what it could be but it's good enough that I'd much rather they leave it alone if they aren't going to, essentially, making it more punishing or more inclusive in terms of what can get you in hot water.

Now that I mention it, it'd be really cool in RTK13PK's class system returned and you could actually be a corrupt politician embezzling government funds for malicious purposes, or a paragon of virtue putting away said corrupt politicians and leading a more efficient government. Especially if the A.I. were to play highly dynamically with one another.

I think there needs to be safeguards or some level of planning to assassinate someone; otherwise you'll have post Yiling Zhang Fei just goes into Jianye and kills Sun Quan because Wu has nobody who can beat him in a duel, which is a pretty absurd thing to happen.
Or if you want to get really weird, a strategy of Lu Bu trying to get his sworn siblings killed so he can easily kill enemy rulers quickly and easily.

I think that's pretty fair game, really. Strategically speaking, it's generally wise to execute the Three Brothers if you can't recruit them because they're very high quality officers so them being effective in avenging one another is a substantial deterrent. Likewise with Cao Cao and the Cao family. If anything I think it'd be great if NPCs actually did stuff like that without player involvement so, sometimes, Sun Quan might actually be assassinated by Zhang Fei at random and replaced by a kinsman who'd, in turn, attempt to massacre the Zhang and Liu families.

[Gray Riders]

I see. The way dueling worked in 8 was kinda busted since it was easy to win 99% of the time regardless of statistical differences because all you had to do was spam high energy moves to win, and recover stamina while under high energy parry or counter as-needed.

Yeah, just don't let them land a special attack and you can generally win. Taunting them is also a good idea if you're fighting a hothead. Probably one of the least RNG based duel systems in the series but really broken in the player's favour.

That's never happened to me, and I've played RTK8 for many thousands of hours over the years, so I'm skeptical of how serious an oversight the latter two things are especially since joining commoners in their festivals was an easy way to lower Infamy. It also works as another reason to avoid mass executions (or executing aside from VIPs) simply because the penalties for being notorious are substantial.

Perhaps it could be a PC/PS2 version difference? I believe I recall reading that the way you interacted with the people walking around was very different; I think in the PS2 version you had to open a menu to talk to them, for instance, and apparently the PC version of 7 didn't have the 184 scenario.

Edit: about the assassination; my main problem would be fixed if thye didn't get unlimited attempts. If an assassin fails they should die, not automatically escape so they can keep trying like an 80s cartoon villain.

[Yoshitaka Ouchi]

Yeah, just don't let them land a special attack and you can generally win. Taunting them is also a good idea if you're fighting a hothead. Probably one of the least RNG based duel systems in the series but really broken in the player's favour.

That and Overawe was also super effective. But yeah, I can't say I'd have any issues if they change the system so long as it isn't as RNG as 13PK's. 10's was the best, I'd say, because it had a decent balance of player skill and RNG. 6's was the most intense though; if one of the duelists fought with "Suicidal" aggression, they damn well meant it lol, and it was totally possible for a desperate and weak officer to murder a much stronger one in that state.

I also noticed there appears to be a Debate system, something that didn't exist in 8 originally. Overall, stuff like this is why I'm treating it as more of a direct gameplay sequel than a remake since I usually associate remakes with sloppy ports.

Perhaps it could be a PC/PS2 version difference? I believe I recall reading that the way you interacted with the people walking around was very different; I think in the PS2 version you had to open a menu to talk to them, for instance, and apparently the PC version of 7 didn't have the 184 scenario.

I mean, in both from what I know, you can talk to townies. I'm pretty sure they're referring to when you Observe at the Market in Winter (I believe it must be Winter) and you have a chance to be begged for money. Refusing does raise your Infamy but it's a trivial amount that can be easily compensated for by Observing Farms in Autumn for the free Fame and Infamy reduction.

RTK7 is pretty interesting when it comes to DLC and Koei. The English PS2 version is basically RTK7 with all DLCs minus the editors and challenge battles of the PK, whereas the original PC and JP PS1 versions of the game lacked 184 and all of its associated officers as well as several later scenarios like Rise of Wei and the Southern Campaign. Basically, I think Koei might have been trying to see what they could get away with because I'm skeptical they were really so dutiful with the 184 DLC that they made brand new portraits for all the officers returning (and new) from RTK6, so I'm assuming they were sitting on the data and intentionally withheld it as an early example of Day 1 DLC. RTK8 may have been something of a return to form/apology with its numerous scenarios.

But 184 wasn't a given back then. I believe RTK5 was the first RTK game to feature the Yellow Turban Rebellion and all its associated characters, and Zhang Jiao was originally almost exactly as he looks in DW2/3 before becoming younger and hipp(ie)er for RTK7-8 (ironically closer to his actual age as well). Among English language games, RTK6 was the first to have 184. Zhang Chun, Zhang Ju's younger brother, appears as an officer in RTK7 but not his elder brother Zhang Ju, and I think Zhang Chun's debut game actually was the 184 DLC of RTK7 although the database/gallery for portraits in RTK13/14 would say that they actually debuted in RTK8.

Edit: about the assassination; my main problem would be fixed if thye didn't get unlimited attempts. If an assassin fails they should die, not automatically escape so they can keep trying like an 80s cartoon villain.

I think that should be a dice roll, since I enjoy the absurdity of it at times lol. But yeah, I do think it should almost as dangerous as attempt to coup in RTK7.

[Ranbir]

This is neat but I'm sad they've not thought to do X. That had one of the best overworld maps and great RPG play.

If 14 is their base going forward for 15 I think that's a shame since I did not vibe with 14 at all.

[Daolun]

14 was exceptionally boring to me. Different kind of boring than 13 but it is clear the new ROTK games aren't for me at all.

[Jordan]

Never played XIV, but XIII is one of the worst games I've ever played in my life.

Tbh, I'm not a big fan of the RTS battles. One of the reasons I liked RTK VIII is that it's turn-based tactics gameplay, but with a strategy component. But in addition, XIII also was painfully slower and duller in its battle system than NA: SOI, and the way it overlapped with the strategy component was much much worse.

[Gray Riders]

We'll get some gameplay footage this Friday for the Tokyo Game Show.
https://www.gamecity.ne.jp/tgs/en/games ... shi8r.html

Edit: Note from the show: Leadership stat is in. I couldn't really figure out anything else not already confirmed since I can't read or speak Japanese.

[Scott]

A few things I noticed from the TGS event a couple days ago (not a Japanese speaker so I probably have missed some bits)

Map changes

- Jiaozhi now in the game which now connects a tunnel from the Jing region into Nanman territory

- Removed the road between Shangyong and Yongan

- Removed the road between Beiping and Pingyuan

New factions

- Shi Xie and co appears in most scenarios in the new Jiaozhi

- Zhang Chao rules Guangling around the 190 scenario(s)

- Han Sui remains in Xiping in the 214 scenario

- A magenta faction in Shouchun next to Yuan Shu during his downfall. Possibly Liu Xun?

- A Yellow Turban faction in Runan from the 180s until just before Guandu

- Sun Jian, Gongsun Zan, Liu Yu and Ding Yuan all appear as independent factions in the 184 scenario

Recommended scenarios

Rather than there being a bunch of recommended scenarios with different officers to choose from, the game seems to reduce this to 6:
Lu Bu in 190, Zhao Yun in 191, Zhou Yu in 194, Cao Cao in 202, Liu Bei in 207 & Zhuge Liang in 227

Faction changes

- Sun Jian is moved from Changsha to Xuchang in 190

- Sun Jian (I assume) is moved to Xinye in 191

- Gongsun Zan rules Bohai instead of Yuan Shao in 191

- Despite now not being connected to the rest of his territories due to previously mentioned map changes, Gongsun Zan rules Pingyuan in 194

Work changes

It appears now more than 10 officers are able to work on city infrastructure. At least when the player character works on a facility, you seem to be given a choice of 3 officers to perform to task with to increase some kind of bond.