Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

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TigerTally
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by TigerTally »

James wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:04 pm
That leaves a host of other proper nouns. Book names, titles, etc. Those are the ones which seem, to me, like they could get a lot more involved, and which seem, to me, like they could benefit a great deal from a separate glossary. That way, if we wanted to change the translation of one proper noun, we only need to adjust in one one location, where other related proper nouns can also be adjusted, without having to worry about manually updating every single entry in the novel proper.

But... I guess we could, theoretically, handle it the same way. Leave those proper nouns in Pinyin as well—the equivalent of leaving a reference to the Sanguozhi as “Sanguozhi” in the text, as opposed to something like “Records of the Three Kingdoms”, while using the database to record every instance of “Sanguozhi” and, for presentation, change those text entries to a chosen translation. There are also some fusses with this approach. For example, it creates an issue if we wanted the text of the novel to include the Pinyin and the translation in actual text as opposed to through reference tools, but perhaps reference tools mean there is no need for this.

So, at first blush, it seems like it may make sense to create a tag that specifically identifies these more challenging proper nouns.
If that is the design, it sounds like an option can be made to allow changing of proper noun display format directly in the texts like these:


English Translation
1. Original (B-T)
2. Sumei
3. Roberts
4. Davis
5. None (Chinese transliteration)

Chinese Transliteration
1. Pinyin 2. WG

Divided into two sets of configuration because available English translations sometimes omit certain things.

EDIT: Maybe even booleans allowing turn on or off of displaying full-names, nicknames, or style-names

Name Designation
1. Always display full names
2. Turn nicknames to original names
3. Turn style-names to original names
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James
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by James »

Sanji Himura wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:15 pm Quoting this post for convivence:

So when I run into a new proper noun, I would log the following information:
Wade-Gilles/Pinyin/Brewitt-Taylor/Roberts/Sumei/Davis(me)/Chapters

So for example (circling back to the Prince of Wei stuff up thread):
wei4 wang2/wèi wáng/Prince of Wei/King of Wei/Prince of Wei/[King/Prince] of Wei*/[Whatever chapters it appears]

Contexually, I can get away with (in this example) using one or the other depending on how the context works itself.
Pretty much that. You have Pinyin and Wade-Gilles reversed in the example, but I imagine that was just a product of typing out a quick example. If you produced it into a live document, it could provide valuable real-time reference on my end, and it could allow for feedback to be exchanged. I figure chapters can be as simple as a string the likes of "1 23 24 25 111".

This would be extremely helpful.

At some point I can make a took to allow this fuss to be database-driven.
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James
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by James »

TigerTally wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:27 pm If that is the design, it sounds like an option can be made to [...]
If I am understanding correctly, yes, this would mean we could even add a preference to the book where the viewer could choose to change the source/display type for proper nouns. This would be more sensible should the database actually be complete, of course. But we can start off with this design and allow the database to be extended along the way, adding such features when the data is ready.

It is also within reason that we could change zi and nicknames like Kongming to names and omit styled such-and-such entries. We could also, for example, allow people to change names to include Chinese, such as "Zhao Yun 趙雲". As long as we start with the right foundation in place, these sort of features may not be too challenging to implement.
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James
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

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Does anyone have a .mobi, .epub, etc copy of the real C.H. Brewitt-Taylor edition?
Not a threekingdoms.com copy, and does not matter if a newer edition. Also does not matter if account-bound, as the goal is to explore a means to extract the text so it may be used as a reference in speeding up the work I am doing right now. If I am unable to accomplish what I hope to accomplish with a given file, I will simply delete the file.
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Sanji Himura
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by Sanji Himura »

I have a pdf of the request, but I'm unsure if you can use it. I'll look at archive.org to see if I can't get another copy for you.
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I'll send it to you anyway, James.
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@James: I can extract the text from the PDF I have to a word document and correct glaring errors(double spaces, ect.), and then send the document your way. Is that agreeable for the purpose? Or do you want it errors and all?
Host of the Three Kingdoms-centered live stream affectionately called Romance Tonight.
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James
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by James »

Sanji Himura wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:44 pm I have a pdf of the request, but I'm unsure if you can use it. I'll look at archive.org to see if I can't get another copy for you. [...]
As noted in reply, thanks!

The versions which are a scan are going to be problematic for this specific purpose, as what I need most is the intact, curated text, complete with concerns like line breaks properly managed. Which is to say, paragraphs intact, etc. I have at hand the OCR output from the Google Books project, but it leaves a lot of work to be done in formatting. And, even though the OCR scan is quite respectable in terms of quality, it does contain assorted errors.

So I'm looking for some sort of text-based edition of the authentic C.H. Brewitt-Taylor translation.
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TigerTally
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by TigerTally »

The only modern ebook of textual B-T translation (that is not copied from threekingdoms.com) is Tuttle 2011 kindle edition. I might have bought it if the same discount was going on Amazon Japan, where my main account is located at... Right now it would cost about double price there :rangry:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006T3MFHI/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006T3ITIW/

15.37 + 16.14 USD at Amazon, but 3,162 + 3,472 JPY plus tax at Amazon JP
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James
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by James »

TigerTally wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:32 pm The only modern ebook of textual B-T translation (that is not copied from threekingdoms.com) is Tuttle 2011 kindle edition. I might have bought it if the same discount was going on Amazon Japan, where my main account is located at... Right now it would cost about double price there :rangry:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006T3MFHI/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006T3ITIW/

15.37 + 16.14 USD at Amazon, but 3,162 + 3,472 JPY plus tax at Amazon JP
Ouch! It's even more expensive at some other eBook sources: generally the MSRP on the Amazon website (sans discount). But yeah... as far as I can tell, this is the only commercialized, formatted eBook of the actual translation published.

I've been poking around with it...
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by James »

A consideration...
American vs British English

KMA’s style guide has been to use American English (because that’s what I use and kiddo me founded the site) and, for written works contributed by authors, whatever style those authors used (with respect to their works and individual preferences). I’ve been pondering what to do with the novel as I have been working on it. I’m currently leaning to a default presentation of American English (aided with a check which seems to indicate that, unlike our rubbish units of measurement, American English is used most frequently online). But, that said, it also occurs to me it is not out of question that this, too, could be a presentation preference. And it may also make sense, when displaying the base edited C.H. Brewitt-Taylor work, British English may be used in honor of the source).

But I’m also curious what thoughts folks may have on this. I can see why strong opinions exist in units of measure—one system is objectively far superior to the other—but not sure what to expect here.
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TigerTally
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Re: Project Feedback: New Romance of the Three Kingdoms Online Novel?

Unread post by TigerTally »

James wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:29 pm Does anyone have a .mobi, .epub, etc copy of the real C.H. Brewitt-Taylor edition?
Not a threekingdoms.com copy, and does not matter if a newer edition. Also does not matter if account-bound, as the goal is to explore a means to extract the text so it may be used as a reference in speeding up the work I am doing right now. If I am unable to accomplish what I hope to accomplish with a given file, I will simply delete the file.
Found an epub of the 2002 edition and sent to your email
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