10 Favorite People of the Era

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Aygor
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by Aygor »

Aygor wrote:1) Jiang Wei
2) Zhao Yun
3) Cao Cao
4) Liu Bei
5) Cao Pi
6) Cao Mao
7) Guan Xing
8) Zhang Bao
9) Zhuge Zhan
10) Liu Feng
Funny to see how opinions change!

Nowadays, it would be somewhat like this:
Liu Feng, Jiang Wei, Yang Feng, Du Yu, Chen Deng, Cao Ang, Liu Chong, Yuan Tan, Liu Bei, Cao Cao

I wonder how tomorrow will be!
Last edited by Aygor on Mon May 11, 2020 8:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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MasterG0819
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by MasterG0819 »

Just now saw this page somehow. For me it’s regularly changing because there are SO MANY people of the time I greatly respect. For now through I’d say.

1. Zhou Yu. Very smart, loyal, respectful man who was talented both as a general and in helping to run a country. Not arrogant in the least from what the records have to say which even in this time was very rear.
2. Deng Ai. Same as Zhou Yu. A bit arrogant but that is not really a big point against him since it’s incredible common.
3. Lü Meng. A amazing case of a man who had a bad start reforming and consistent improving himself past that, to where he became on of the most skilled people of the time and changed history. It’s hard to argue that Sun Quan’s forces would not had fallen to Cao Cao or at least lost some important land in the late 210’s without him.
4. Zhang Ni. A brave, tough and smart guy who preferred winning without fighting each time he could. He was incredible at getting tribes to lay down there arms and when this was not possible, he was almost as hard to beat as Lü Meng. Did I mention his bravery? The first event in his SGZ is when he changes into a force of bandits alone to save a woman he didn’t know.
5. Sun Ce. I see him as very similar in personality to Lü Meng, however he didn’t make the sane mistake when he was young and had a far different role. Him taking Lü Meng under his wing for a time is also a big point for him.
6. Xun Yu. A very smart, good guy. He might had been the best administration Cao Cao had working for him, possibly other then Zhong Yao, and was a great judge of character. Also like Zhou Yu and Zhang Ni he was humble as could be.
7. Fei Yi. A extremely skilled administrator and good guy. The best in Shu and possibly the whole era at running a country, although people such as Cao Cao and Zhou Yu had him beat at the area of running the army. He does actually seem to had been a bit arrogant from how he just disregard Zhang Ni’s weaning about his behavior but it is not something big.
8. Ling Tong. Similar to Lü Meng. I just don’t see Ling Tong as being as skilled of a general or as multitalented.
9. Wang Ping. A smart guy who could never learn how to read and could not recognize more than 10 characters. He never let this get to him too much and studied a lot. He was definitely very skilled, defected Zhang He in a battle and then defected a army three times larger then his in 244. He was one of the best generals in Shu and was a very admirable man.
10. Cao Cao. A highly skilled, incredible influence man who treated his subordinates very well outside of just a few cases line Zhu Ling. He was great.

HM Zhao Yun. Even in the SGZ that doesn’t say he had many feats as a general, Chang Ban speaks very well of him. He was a selfless loyal, brave man who the SGZ just makes sound like a all around good guy.
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by ky9ersfan »

This is in no way is the best overall, just my favorite 10 going by the novel.

-1)Cao Cao:A ruthless talented warlord, who defeated his less skilled rivals left and right, eventually turning into the dominant northern power. The best ruler of the period, to me anyways.

-2)Zhang Liao:A talented veteran general, he made a difference for both Lu Bu, and then Cao Cao. He is my favorite officer after Cao Cao. He proved himself in many battles with Wu.

-3)Guan Yu:An extremely capable general, and Shu's top general.People say he wasn't as good as the novel, but I look at Cao Cao's recruitment efforts of Guan Yu. To me that tells me all I need to know.

-4)Jia Xu:My favorite strategist. He always had sound wisdom, for whomever he served. He helped Zhang Xiu deflect a couple Wei incursions, and that is no small task, with a much smaller force.

-5)Lu Bu:A very strong general/duelist type, that stood at the top of the best generals. He might not have been a good warlord, going against an elite one in Cao Cao. But as a general following orders, he was one of the best to me. And also I don't think he was mindless, like he is rated as in the games. In one of his novel night time battles in Yan, he nearly caught Cao Cao by surprise in an night time battle. He also ambushed Cao Cao 's forces, after Dong's retreat from Luo Yang. It takes atleast average intelligence to do that.

-6)Dian Wei:A talented loyal warrior type, that made a difference. He fought his way in, and saved Cao Cao against a Lu Bu night time ambush, and then also saved his lord by making a heroic last stand against Zhang Xiu's forces. He gave his life, and allowed his lord time to retreat.

-7)Lu Xun:One of the best Wu commanders, that dealt Shu a devastating defeat in the battle of Yi Ling. To me he is one of the best commanders of the period.

-8)Gan Ning:A talented general, that made an impact where ever he served. If you could overlook his sometimes appalling eccentric behavior. I guess it is a mixed bag with Gan Ning, you take the good with the bad. He had a good showing fighting on the front lines against Wei at Hefei, allowing Sun Quan's retreat back to Wu.

-9 )Zhao Yun:One of the best loyal general/body guard types. He proved very useful for three leaders, first Gongsun Zan, then Liu Bei, and then lastly for Zhuge Liang. Saved Huang Zhong who was on the verge of being defeated by Wei general Xu Huang, later on in the novel.

-10)Zhang Xiu:An above average, solid general type. He was wise enough to make good use of Jia Xu, and talented enough to carryout his plans, and defeat Wei multiple times around the Wan area. To me at the worst, he is like a poorman's Yu Jin. He had to be a halfway decent warlord, inorder for Liu Biao to relinquish command of Wan castle to him. Thus making him an independent buffer zone, between Jing and the north.
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Daolun
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by Daolun »

I'm shocked I never posted in this given how much of an opinionated douche I am! :lol:

Honorable Mentions: Bei Yan, Chen Zhi, Xi Zheng and Yang Xi.

1: Zhong Hui - Should be remarkably obvious to anyone who knows me. The man was an unparalleled genius from an early age and a political mastermind. The writings we've retained of his are so damn fascinating. He was so heavily admired in his time and even beyond his death to the point of deification long before the trend of most others being elevated. I am fascinated by his entire family and I don't think there is a more interesting human being to ever exist. From his strict childhood to his intellectual sparing matches in his 20s, to his nearly untouchable military record to his last gambit to, in my opinion, save Wei... Zhong Hui is unlike any other figure of the time period. He is the North Star of the Third Century.

2: Zhong Yao - The very writing system of standard script calligraphy can be traced back to him. The literal form of writing. It was known as 鍾体 for a reason! What a marvel. What a legend. What a cultural icon. Whether it was his incredible track record as a military man, his work in restoring the capital region, his political abilities or the fact that he helped shaped the written word: Grand Tutor Zhong is... he just is. That's all there is! How can you find words to truly describe someone THAT important? He has his own Cultural Park for a reason.

3: Jiang Wei - Han's Final General-In-Chief! Having slaved over his SGZ for a long time translating it, looking at various appraisals and all that; I had such a drastic shift on him. Jiang Wei was the ideal loyal subject. Everything he did was for Han till his dying day. He began his career recruiting men loyal to him when he had nothing, and he ended his life standing beside men loyal to him when he lost everything. He inspired more loyalty than Liu Bei. Jiang Wei is a true hero of Han.

4: Chen Shou - My god. What a genius. What a fucking brilliant man. I adore him. Dealing with several historical sources outside of the SGZ, I always come back to marvel at how Chen Shou compiled things. Organization, appraisal, clever political workarounds. What a hero. I agree with Zhang Hua and Xun Xu when they said Ban Gu and Sima Qian weren't his equal. The Sanguozhi is the perfect historical work, and while it may not have a treatise section I'd trade a lack of one for how perfectly put together it is. I love him.

5: Xiahou Xuan - When lightning struck near him, he did not flinch. By merely arriving he strikes fear into the Sima. Zhong Yu shed tears when having to convict him of treason. For attempting to save Wei, he faced bisection without changing his expression. Generations later he was still admired and adored, and many believed the utter destruction of Jin was due to his death. His death was a catalyst for so many things. He truly was the Time's Hope.

6: He Yan - The man who adored the next generation. He Yan spent so much time in office seeking out talented youths and propping them up, casting aside the useless elderly and their conservative nature. Brilliant men like Wang Bi, Zhong Hui, Xun Xu, Pei Xiu and the like were his doing. His writings as well were things studied for generations to come and become the very foundation of Chinese thought until Zhu Xi. A man can change a time, a legend can shape the future.

7: Cao Mao - Purportedly one of the greatest painters of his day, one of the most prolific writers, a man of incredible military mind and political thought. His debates, his beliefs, his memorials are all ingrained in my mind. At nineteen he did something more brave than most other human beings would ever do in their entire lives when he gathered his poorly armed and even worse trained palace guards to stand against the encroaching army of a tyrant seeking to destroy his families legacy. Cao Mao died the Hero that most people believe the likes of his grandfather were. Perception is one thing, actually being it is entirely different.

8: Zhuge Liang - Come on. He's Zhuge Liang. He's Cao Cao without the horrible baggage! The more time I spent translating things from the state of Han, the more I came to understand exactly why he is admired so much. It's one thing to read opinions of modern people, or just come to your own conclusions based off half ass readings of things like the ZZTJ. It's another thing to truly see the words of the contemporaries as they were intended. And more importantly to see his actions. To see how he treated people, how he viewed the world, how he governed, how those of his time and after came to understand him. He isn't some Daoist Wind Sage as fiction portrays and to be let down by this is ridiculous. The true Zhuge Liang, the man so synonymous with the term State Chancellor in China, deserves every bit of respect and admiration thrown at him.

9: Wei Guan - Brilliance. Sheer political brilliance. From avoiding the internal struggles in Wei, to navigating the insanity of Han's fall in 264 to suppress chaos, to doing his damdest to the end to save Jin and guide Sima Liang into a good direction; Wei Guan was incredible. The failures that occurred were not his doing, but on his foolish lord who was too inept to act. Wei Guan was proven right time and time again. I am happy he was rehabilitated. Deng Ai deserved to die btw.

10: Wen Chu - The real Dynasty Warrior. As recorded he personally slew a hundred men. He struck fear into the heart of Sima Shi and caused his wound to reopen, ending his life not long after. His defection from Zhuge Dan sealed the rebellions fate. He helped stall and defeating Tufa Shujineng. He's literally the perfect example of what Dynasty Warriors likes. Although that doesn't explain why he's so worthless in those games... he deserves better. Also stop calling Wen Yang please.
以其言非吾言者,是猶以卵投石也,盡天下之卵,其石猶是也,不可毀也。
To refute my principle with one's own principle is like throwing an egg against a boulder. The eggs in the world would be exhausted without doing any harm to the boulder.
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Deej
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by Deej »

DaoLunOfShiji wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:34 am I'm shocked I never posted in this given how much of an opinionated douche I am! :lol:

Honorable Mentions: Bei Yan, Chen Zhi, Xi Zheng and Yang Xi.

1: Zhong Hui - Should be remarkably obvious to anyone who knows me. The man was an unparalleled genius from an early age and a political mastermind. The writings we've retained of his are so damn fascinating. He was so heavily admired in his time and even beyond his death to the point of deification long before the trend of most others being elevated. I am fascinated by his entire family and I don't think there is a more interesting human being to ever exist. From his strict childhood to his intellectual sparing matches in his 20s, to his nearly untouchable military record to his last gambit to, in my opinion, save Wei... Zhong Hui is unlike any other figure of the time period. He is the North Star of the Third Century.

2: Zhong Yao - The very writing system of standard script calligraphy can be traced back to him. The literal form of writing. It was known as 鍾体 for a reason! What a marvel. What a legend. What a cultural icon. Whether it was his incredible track record as a military man, his work in restoring the capital region, his political abilities or the fact that he helped shaped the written word: Grand Tutor Zhong is... he just is. That's all there is! How can you find words to truly describe someone THAT important? He has his own Cultural Park for a reason.

3: Jiang Wei - Han's Final General-In-Chief! Having slaved over his SGZ for a long time translating it, looking at various appraisals and all that; I had such a drastic shift on him. Jiang Wei was the ideal loyal subject. Everything he did was for Han till his dying day. He began his career recruiting men loyal to him when he had nothing, and he ended his life standing beside men loyal to him when he lost everything. He inspired more loyalty than Liu Bei. Jiang Wei is a true hero of Han.

4: Chen Shou - My god. What a genius. What a fucking brilliant man. I adore him. Dealing with several historical sources outside of the SGZ, I always come back to marvel at how Chen Shou compiled things. Organization, appraisal, clever political workarounds. What a hero. I agree with Zhang Hua and Xun Xu when they said Ban Gu and Sima Qian weren't his equal. The Sanguozhi is the perfect historical work, and while it may not have a treatise section I'd trade a lack of one for how perfectly put together it is. I love him.

5: Xiahou Xuan - When lightning struck near him, he did not flinch. By merely arriving he strikes fear into the Sima. Zhong Yu shed tears when having to convict him of treason. For attempting to save Wei, he faced bisection without changing his expression. Generations later he was still admired and adored, and many believed the utter destruction of Jin was due to his death. His death was a catalyst for so many things. He truly was the Time's Hope.

6: He Yan - The man who adored the next generation. He Yan spent so much time in office seeking out talented youths and propping them up, casting aside the useless elderly and their conservative nature. Brilliant men like Wang Bi, Zhong Hui, Xun Xu, Pei Xiu and the like were his doing. His writings as well were things studied for generations to come and become the very foundation of Chinese thought until Zhu Xi. A man can change a time, a legend can shape the future.

7: Cao Mao - Purportedly one of the greatest painters of his day, one of the most prolific writers, a man of incredible military mind and political thought. His debates, his beliefs, his memorials are all ingrained in my mind. At nineteen he did something more brave than most other human beings would ever do in their entire lives when he gathered his poorly armed and even worse trained palace guards to stand against the encroaching army of a tyrant seeking to destroy his families legacy. Cao Mao died the Hero that most people believe the likes of his grandfather were. Perception is one thing, actually being it is entirely different.

8: Zhuge Liang - Come on. He's Zhuge Liang. He's Cao Cao without the horrible baggage! The more time I spent translating things from the state of Han, the more I came to understand exactly why he is admired so much. It's one thing to read opinions of modern people, or just come to your own conclusions based off half ass readings of things like the ZZTJ. It's another thing to truly see the words of the contemporaries as they were intended. And more importantly to see his actions. To see how he treated people, how he viewed the world, how he governed, how those of his time and after came to understand him. He isn't some Daoist Wind Sage as fiction portrays and to be let down by this is ridiculous. The true Zhuge Liang, the man so synonymous with the term State Chancellor in China, deserves every bit of respect and admiration thrown at him.

9: Wei Guan - Brilliance. Sheer political brilliance. From avoiding the internal struggles in Wei, to navigating the insanity of Han's fall in 264 to suppress chaos, to doing his damdest to the end to save Jin and guide Sima Liang into a good direction; Wei Guan was incredible. The failures that occurred were not his doing, but on his foolish lord who was too inept to act. Wei Guan was proven right time and time again. I am happy he was rehabilitated. Deng Ai deserved to die btw.

10: Wen Chu - The real Dynasty Warrior. As recorded he personally slew a hundred men. He struck fear into the heart of Sima Shi and caused his wound to reopen, ending his life not long after. His defection from Zhuge Dan sealed the rebellions fate. He helped stall and defeating Tufa Shujineng. He's literally the perfect example of what Dynasty Warriors likes. Although that doesn't explain why he's so worthless in those games... he deserves better. Also stop calling Wen Yang please.
I actually didn't think you'd ever comment on threads like this but I'm glad you have. You've given me a list of people to read about. Who is this Zhuge Liang guy anyway? Send me some stuff if you can please on these! Spam welcome.
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Daolun
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by Daolun »

It's something I've been asked more times than I count. Granted I can't count that high, but still.

Even now I am still unsure if Wen Chu was the right person for number ten.
以其言非吾言者,是猶以卵投石也,盡天下之卵,其石猶是也,不可毀也。
To refute my principle with one's own principle is like throwing an egg against a boulder. The eggs in the world would be exhausted without doing any harm to the boulder.
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Sun Fin
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by Sun Fin »

Daolun wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:34 am I'm shocked I never posted in this given how much of an opinionated douche I am! :lol:
Your words not mine... :lol:

I looked at putting together a new list, but honestly my answer has changed so little since my post on the first page it seemed redundant.
Have a question about a book or academic article before you buy it? Maybe I have it!
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Daolun
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Re: 10 Favorite People of the Era

Unread post by Daolun »

Sun Fin wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:52 pm
Daolun wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:34 am I'm shocked I never posted in this given how much of an opinionated douche I am! :lol:
Your words not mine... :lol:

I looked at putting together a new list, but honestly my answer has changed so little since my post on the first page it seemed redundant.
We all know Sun Quan is your number 1.
以其言非吾言者,是猶以卵投石也,盡天下之卵,其石猶是也,不可毀也。
To refute my principle with one's own principle is like throwing an egg against a boulder. The eggs in the world would be exhausted without doing any harm to the boulder.
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