Kongde wrote:However, as someone who used to be a religious Christian going weekly church, I have more than fair enough grounds to speak openly about my own feelings on the matter.
Yeah I was raised Roman Catholic in Ireland (north part but still Ireland) and was made to go to church every week as well so I am quite familiar with it all myself. Sometimes, I feel so angry that I was brainwashed into believing something that had zero proof but then my parents were also brainwashed and their parents before them (etc) so I try to remember that.
Kongde wrote:I believe Satan to be the good guy in the story of Christianity by the Bible. If you were the bad guy and you were writing a book on yourself, of course you would lie and slander the good guy and make yourself look like the good guy.
Bear with me now as I come full circle, what had the devil ever truly done to humanity that was wrong? It could be viewed that him convincing Eve to bite the apple as a snake was his wrongdoing. Perhaps. But another way to look at that was before, though supposedly in peace and bliss, they were ignorant of many things and knowledge was irrelevant. Satan only wanted humans to possess knowledge. while God wanted humans to remain in the dark. Perhaps that is a stretch, but the next statements I'm about to make are far from it.
I do not believe in Satan but yes the story of the Garden of Eden is atrocious and downright misogynist. Firstly, woman was made from Adam's rib? No thank you. Then Eve
was the one that dared eat from the tree of knowledge? Yeah, again no thank you. And this basically condemns every baby that is ever born with "original sin" despite the fact a sin is defined as an action one makes despite knowing it was wrong and babies, due to their infantile brains, cannot know anything let alone do anything in order to
sin? Yeah no thanks. Then this is used for thousands of years to stop women becoming priests or leaders in the churches? Yeah no thanks.
So basically, humans need baptised forever because one woman decided to follow her curious nature, such a crime.
Kongde wrote:God practically wiped out humanity during the flood. He murdered millions of people. Innocent people included. God had made nature, bears, attack and maul children, killing them. Satan killed nobody the entire story. God committed genocide with his own creation, despite being omniscient and knowing that would happen. Had he been perfect and all knowing. He surely could have created a better timeline in which mass genocide was not necessary, hell, where the apple was never eaten to begin with.
So to be clear, because theists often (not all of course) try to claim Atheists are angry with God, I am not because I do not believe he exists.
But, if the Bible is true yes, for all the Genocide committed in the Bible by the being we are taught is "loving" yeah if even someone could prove beyond reasonable doubt that the deity in the Bible existed, I would never worship someone who carried out such acts. I have already spent the entirety of my adult life in agony so whats a couple eternities to boot??
The deity in Bible created everything, then he must have created Hell. Hell is used as a "obey me or go to hell" or "worship me or got to hell" or "let me into your soul or go to hell" and yeah that's what abusive partners do too ie punish their victims for not obeying them and then blame them for not obeying in the first place.
I was taught "God" was loving but the Great Flood is not loving, painting all homosexual men as rapists is not loving like in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, turning a woman into a pillar of salt for daring to look over her shoulder as she fled, is not loving. I was taught I was loved "unconditionally" which is hardly true is it given getting into heaven or hell is dependent on the condition
that I worship the deity who is telling me he loves me unconditionally. How unethical.
Kongde wrote:When you consider all these facts, it can be easy to see why God can be seen as the actual bad guy and Satan, the good guy.
I am not praising satan as I do not even believe he exists. So do not get things twisted, I am unaffiliated.
Don't worry, I think we can discus characters in the Bible in the same way we can discuss Herakles or Horus, as discussing and critiquing the mythology does not mean we automatically believe in it.
But yes I see your point as well. I see, "do what I tell you or burn in the Hell I created" to be abusive. Like a gun being held to your head. There's no "Free Will" there as naturally we do not want to suffer for all eternity.
Liu Yuante wrote:Your second sentence is one that I think many people could get behind, but the question becomes, who gets to define what "good intent" means?
The same people that have always determined what it means, us, humanity.
Morality evolved from early humans realising that by working together and helping each other increased the chances of the group surviving. Harming each other causes conflict, which lessens the likelihood of the group surviving.
Morality did not come from the Bible, otherwise we wouldn't have thousands of years of historical civilisations that existed before the Bible was a twinkle in anyone's eye. When people wonder how do we know, we know because these civilisations had laws to maintain order. These laws would be based on a form of morality, otherwise we would all still be hunter gatherers protecting our own small families and tribes.
Morality is going to change from one person to the next. The USA is a country where murder is wrong and yet there is now talk of going to war with Iran over Oil fields. I have no problem if someone is actively trying to kill you and you defend yourself and the attacker ends up dead as a result, but wars cost lives and oil is not a justifiable reason to go to war and, inevitably, hurt and kill innocent civilians getting on with their lives. So, to me, that would be wrong but, obviously to Trump and Bojo, its something to discuss?? Learning nothing from history.
Ultimately, we decide what is right and wrong and sadly many say that killing is wrong but then dress their xenophobia up as "patriotism" to justify certain types of killing. In my personal opinion, humanism is the way to go but that's my personal opinion and would not force anyone to obey me.