SGZ Biography of Sun Quan.

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SGZ Biography of Sun Quan.

Unread postby The Sun Also Rises » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:12 pm

Sun Quan's SGZ has been translated at Empire Divided by Sun Bofu.

The start is a bit rough(first few paragraphs) but after words it gets very smooth.

I figured quite a few folk would be interested in reading it so, enjoy :)

Check it out here.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:36 pm

w00t! You've done it! Thank you for sharing the translation!

If Bofu wants some input regarding the Chinese passages, I can work on it if I can get the original file by email (I don't like working with online texts).

Thanks again.
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Unread postby Trifle » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:45 pm

Ya thanks for the translation.
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Unread postby Iain » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:44 am

Quan took their advice. [Zhou] Yu and [Cheng] Pu served as left and right commanders and each was given 10,000 troops. They took part with [Liu] Bei to meet with Duke Cao at Chi Bi and greatly defeated his army. The Duke(Cao Cao) burned his remaining ships and led his retreat.
I found this part interesting, does this mean the bit about Huang Gai pretending surrender and burning his ships isnt quite correct? Cao Cao burned his own ships? :?
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:01 am

I don't know the translator, so I can't be sure, but it could just be a grammatical error in the translation (for something like "The Duke's remaining ships burned, and he retreated."
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:59 am

That's actually the passage that sparks the most debate on the Chibi issue. Who burnt the boats? How many were burnt? How decisive was that to Cao Cao's retreat? I'm sure there's a thread somewhere where Han Xin, Great Deer, and other people fought a great battle over it, but I can't seem to find it at 2am. Bleh.

Note that Zhou Yu and Huang Gai's bio both note that there's an active scheme of Wu's that burnt Cao Cao's boats. It's likely that not all the boats were burnt, and they had some more fighting before Cao Cao realized that he was really getting creamed, so he burnt the *remaining* (key word!) boats and retreated.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:42 pm

Cao Cao most certainly burnt his own boats.The sequence of events in Liu Bei's and Cao Cao's bios certainly point to that.

1)Cao Cao advances on Chi Bi.
2)He is hit by a fire attack by parties who are under debate(Liu Bei or Huang Gai).
3)Cao Cao retreats on land and water to Nanjun.

Now then,this obviously shoots Zhou Yu's description in the foot.The whole raging inferno couldn't be true if Cao cao has enough ships to make retreating on water a practicalit that would be mentioned.Additionally the fact that he retreats to Nanjun also shows that his hit at Chi Bi wasn't as bad as most people seem to think or as the novel portrays.
Note that when he later retreats he heads straight back to Xu Chang.If he was on a full retreat then why go to Nanjun?
I'll tell you why.Because he was simply falling back so he could regroup for another attack.because...

4)Cao Cao's troops in Nanjun are ravaged by an epidemic.
5)Cao Cao withdraws to Xu Chang.

Now then as we see Cao Cao goes to Nanjun but then goes to Xu Chang only after his troops are ravaged by the epidemic,making his regrouping impossible.
But now he has a rather large fleet moored at Nanjun.Cao Ren hasn't enough men to use it and moving it up further to Xiang Yang would take more manpower than he can spare plus they would also be essentiallu useless at Xiang Yang.
As such he burns them to prevent their capture.An expensive solution indeed,but a sensible one.
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Unread postby dengai » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:26 pm

Does anyone know where to find the SGZ bio of Zhou Yu?
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Unread postby James » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:38 pm

dengai wrote:Does anyone know where to find the SGZ bio of Zhou Yu?
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Re: SGZ Biography of Sun Quan.

Unread postby Mikhail » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:10 am

Anyone got any linkage to this? The empiredivided site is down.
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