Yuan Shu's betrayal

[Russell]

In your opinion, what would have happened, had Yuan Shu sent the food to Sun Jian during the battle against Dong Zhuo?

I believe that Sun Jian would have captured Luo Yang, and then either restore the Han's line of rule, or claimed the throne for himself, preventing the Three Kingdoms from ever being formed, and possibly making the Sun (Wu) Dynasty the rulers of China.

[Zhang Liao17]

In your opinion, what would have happened, had Yuan Shu sent the food to Sun Jian during the battle against Dong Zhuo?

I believe that Sun Jian would have captured Luo Yang, and then either restore the Han's line of rule, or claimed the throne for himself, preventing the Three Kingdoms from ever being formed, and possibly making the Sun (Wu) Dynasty the rulers of China.

Its somewhat odd to assume that Sun Jian could become the supreme ruler of China after winning one battle. Even if Sun Jian was able to wipe out Dong Zhuo and everyone loyal to him(which is extremely unlikely) the other lords wouldn't simply bow down and surrender to him. Every lord was there for personal glory, they wanted to be the one to kill Dong Zhuo and if Sun Jian did it, they'd just come after him next. The other lords wouldn't allow Sun Jian to be put into a power position and Yuan Shu's act proved it. Any of the other lords would have done the same in his situation. The alliance against Dong Zhuo was really formed because the lords wanted to obtain personal glory. Dong Zhuo's tyranny was just the excuse they needed for an attack.

[Russell]

*Ponders for a moment*

Yep. I definitely look stupid after that.

But I quess I see your point.

[Zhao Zilong]

I have to make a reference to Dynasty Warriors 3 to ask my question.

In the stage, Assault on Hu Lao Gate, there is a cinematic of a messenger telling Sun Jian that Yuan Shu's troops haven't mobilized. Then Sun Jian states(with his cheesy voice-over) "Yuan Shu, you have deceived me!"

What historical event does this cinematic portray?

[Zhang Liao17]

I have to make a reference to Dynasty Warriors 3 to ask my question.

In the stage, Assault on Hu Lao Gate, there is a cinematic of a messenger telling Sun Jian that Yuan Shu's troops haven't mobilized. Then Sun Jian states(with his cheesy voice-over) "Yuan Shu, you have deceived me!"

What historical event does this cinematic portray?

After the alliance against Dong Zhuo was formed, someone was asked to make an attack and Sun Jian volunteered. Yuan Shao deemed him worthy and sent Sun Jian to the task. After meeting with some success, Sun Jian was low on food and called on the Chief of the Commissariat, who happened to be Yuan Shu, to send him more supplies. Yuan Shu refused after receiving advice from an aid and his refusal led to Sun Jian's defeat. When the two next met, Sun Jian was furious and Yuan Shu, scared beyond belief had his aid executed to slake the anger of Sun Jian.

[Zhai Rong]

I don't think that the main cause of Sun Jian's defeat was to Yuan Shu's failure to supply food. Rather, it was Bao Xin's rash attack to gain personal glory. This meant that it was Hua Xiong, not Sun Jian (as it should have been), who made the surprise attack. This is not to say that Yuan Shu's idiocy did not play a part, but I think that the only difference would be that Sun Jian would be able to hold his position.

[Antiochus]

Hua Xiong would have been crushed by him and It would have been easyer to take down Luo Yang.

[GuanYu]

i don't know too much about Yuan Shu, did he betray Yuan Shao?

[Yuan Seth]

Yuan Shu was Yuan Shao's brother-in-law. Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu did not like eachother from the start, but Yuan Shu knew better not to betray Yuan Shao.

I don't think that the main cause of Sun Jian's defeat was to Yuan Shu's failure to supply food. Rather, it was Bao Xin's rash attack to gain personal glory. This meant that it was Hua Xiong, not Sun Jian (as it should have been), who made the surprise attack. This is not to say that Yuan Shu's idiocy did not play a part, but I think that the only difference would be that Sun Jian would be able to hold his position.

As Napoleon said: "An army marches on it's stomach." This is no exception. Without having food, you can not attack. If you are hungry, you have no stamina, without stamina, you can not attack. Battles did not last an hour, but days or weeks.

[Lord_Kongming]

Good point Sun Yuan. 3rt whats your name you obviously dont see it from as soldiers perspective. I call this the Yuan Shu Betrayal, from the soldier should they have gotten food from Yuan Shu.

1: Woo... Boy i'm hungry
2:me too
3: Food came from Yuan Shu!
4: Yay! Hey look! Hua Xiong!
5: Lets swarm him and kill him and get promoted!
6: YaaaaahoOO!


End

Well its a little wierd but you get the point right?