On Liu Zhang

On Liu Zhang

New postby Sun Gongli on Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:30 pm

I merely thought it would be interesting to discuss the career of Liu Zhang. Despite the view we have of him as a bit of a bumbler second only to Liu Shan, he seems to have lived through some very interesting times.

Two of Liu Zhang's brothers appear to have been killed during Ma Teng's attack on Li Jue, and it was at this time that a certain Pang Xi brought their sons to Liu Yan and joined him. Shortly thereafter, Liu Yan died, and an imperial edict named Hu Mao as his replacement, but Zhao Wei and others felt that Liu Zhang, being lenient and kind, should receive the post instead. This resulted in the rebellion of Gan Ning (yes, that Gan Ning), Lou Fa, and Shen Mi, but their revolt was quashed and they fled to Jing province (Liu Biao and Liu Yan had conflicted with one another numerous times, and Liu Biao and Liu Zhang would continue that long running trend). In the end, the Han issued another edict, this time naming Liu Zhang as Inspector instead of Hu Mao.

Liu Zhang appears to have exercised some control of Zhang Lu and his sect, but Zhang Lu apparently had a falling out with him and rebelled, killing his officer Zhang Xiu. In retaliation, Liu Zhang killed Zhang Lu's family. Liu Zhang sent Pang Xi to war with Zhang Lu, but someone started a rumor against Pang Xi. Zhao Wei had tried to intercede on Pang Xi's behalf, but Liu Zhang would not listen. Eventually, Zhao Wei, who had helped to establish Liu Zhang, rebelled, and joined Liu Biao.

Zhao Wei was eventually slain, but Pang Xi was able to make peace with Liu Zhang (though he had tried to raise troops in self-defense). The Han court heard of the troubles that Yi was having and tried to replace Liu Zhang, but he refused.

We all know the story about how Liu Zhang's forces fell apart when Liu Bei entered the picture - Zhang Song and Fa Zheng betrayed him, and generals were captured and surrendered. What some people may not realize is that, upon the capture of Guan Yu, Liu Zhang also came into the service of Sun Quan, and he was set up to be made as Governor of Yi Province, but died shortly thereafter.

All other accounts I'd read besides Liu Zhang's SGZ biography and ZZTJ indicated that Liu Zhang died an officer of Liu Bei. How interesting, then, it would be that Sun Quan, who had once sought to send Zhou Yu and Sun Yu to attack him, would then want to use him to replace the man who had forced his surrender earlier?
"There are those who try to shape the world to their own whim,
and then there are those who allow the world to shape them.
It is in the balance that greatness is achieved."
User avatar
Sun Gongli
Poo Poo Pants
 
Posts: 4058
Joined: November 3, 2004
Location: Spies destroy everything I create!

New postby Xu Yuan on Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:06 pm

I absolutely love the exploit's of little known officer's, if Koei would take the time, they could create a "Legend of,,," based upon character's of your choosing, From Guan Yu to Ma Long, of course some might be much shorter then other's that would still be an excellent idea... sort of strummed off topic...


Ahem... anyway, thanks for all this info. on Liu Zhang, I knew he couldn't be as bad as Koei's stats make him out to be.
As you know security
is mortal's greatest enemy.
User avatar
Xu Yuan
Changshi
 
Posts: 400
Joined: June 28, 2005

New postby Lexus Fiend on Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:38 pm

Thanks for posting, Gongli. My knowledge on Liu Zhang has basically doubled by reading this.
-Devin aka LuckyD
*Neighborhood Superstar*
"Street smarts on the level of a Harvard degree."
User avatar
Lexus Fiend
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 3218
Joined: July 15, 2005
Location: LoUiSiAna

New postby LiuBeiwasGreat on Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:05 am

Very nice, i always wanted to know the details of Pang Xi's campaign against Zhang Lu and the details about Liu Zhang's rule before Liu Bei's arrival. Thanks Sun Gongli.
"If you can't drink a lobbyist's whiskey, take his money, sleep with his women and still vote against him in the morning, you don't belong in politics."
LiuBeiwasGreat
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: March 22, 2004
Location: Queens NY

New postby Six_and_Up on Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:30 am

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the post. Looks like theres a lot more on Liu Zhang than i thought.
Currently playing: Dragon Quest VIII
User avatar
Six_and_Up
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 901
Joined: October 16, 2003
Location: Sydney Australia

New postby MarvelousLingTong!!!!!! on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:56 am

That was very interesting I knew next to nothing about Liu Zhang I'm glad you posted this.
"Nooooooooo hot sexy wife!!!" - Martin Schean
User avatar
MarvelousLingTong!!!!!!
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1344
Joined: March 8, 2005
Location: Missouri

New postby SlickSlicer on Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:08 am

YES! I knew that was the same Gan Ning. I saw his name on Dr. Rafe de Crispigny's site and was wondering about that. In the bio I made of him for my old site I said that he originally served Liu Zhang and then rebelled too, but I wasn't sure if it was the same Gan Ning or another one.
User avatar
SlickSlicer
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 4352
Joined: December 1, 2004

New postby JamesD on Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:51 pm

Great info Sun Gongli, this could help me in a debate on another forum. By the way, that Zhang Xiu isn't related to Zhang Lu is it?
JamesD
Langzhong
 
Posts: 538
Joined: June 12, 2006
Location: Fairfield, CT

New postby Sun Gongli on Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:26 pm

Not that I'm aware of. Zhang is, even then, an extremely common surname. It's like "Smith" or "Jones" in English.
"There are those who try to shape the world to their own whim,
and then there are those who allow the world to shape them.
It is in the balance that greatness is achieved."
User avatar
Sun Gongli
Poo Poo Pants
 
Posts: 4058
Joined: November 3, 2004
Location: Spies destroy everything I create!

New postby Zhao Zilong on Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:23 pm

Thanks for the info on Liu Zhang. I didn't know too much about Liu Zhang and that passage was interesting.
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
User avatar
Zhao Zilong
Master
 
Posts: 248
Joined: August 2, 2002
Location: Chengdu

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved