What's up with Liu Shan's San Guo Zhi biography?

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

What's up with Liu Shan's San Guo Zhi biography?

Unread postby Cloud Strife » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:45 pm

If it's his biography, why does it look like the author who originally wrote it seem like it was SGZ bio of Shu and it's campaigns against Wei and rarely mentions anything Liu Shan had done.

http://empiredividedtk.com/rtk/sgz/liushan.htm

Are there any bio's like this? I've read all of them but I forgot if there were more biographies like this. :?
Hey guys, "Breaking Upwards" has been released at the IFC Center in New York! And at Laemmle Sunset 5 in LA! Come see it this weekend, April 10th-11th, to help it go nationwide! Thanks! http://www.breakingupwards.com
User avatar
Cloud Strife
Scholar
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:00 pm

Unread postby Xiahou Ji » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:39 am

The bio of the emperors are different than the usual officer's bio. The emperor's bio is 紀 (Ji) and officer's bio is 傳 (Chuan). One of the meaning for 紀 (Ji) is that it's the beginning of a new emperor's ruling. If you look at Cao Pi's bio, they are similar.
Then say you'll share with me one love, one lifetime;
let me lead you from your solitude.
Say you need me with you, here beside you,
anywhere you go, let me go too,
Christine, that's all I ask of you...
User avatar
Xiahou Ji
Academic
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:09 pm
Location: Gobi Desert

Unread postby Cloud Strife » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:02 am

His son, Mi Wei, reached the rank of Tiger-swift General of the Interior, and Wei’s son, Mi Zhao, became Inspector of the Tiger Cavalry.
For three generations from Mi Zhu to Mi Zhao, all were comfortable with horses and bows and arrows, and were said to be talented at driving chariots and shooting.

Excerpt from Mi Fang's SGZ bio
Hey guys, "Breaking Upwards" has been released at the IFC Center in New York! And at Laemmle Sunset 5 in LA! Come see it this weekend, April 10th-11th, to help it go nationwide! Thanks! http://www.breakingupwards.com
User avatar
Cloud Strife
Scholar
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:00 pm

Unread postby Lu Kang » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:52 am

The translation is not the best it can be but even so just looking at the pure information there are some clear points about a "ruler bio" that sets it apparent from an "officer bio".

Ruler bios can be counted on for one important thing, to have a nice set of chronoligical events for just about ever year. You go into Sun Quan's bio you'll see each paragraph starts with year, and this is true for Liu Bei and Cao Cao. Ruler bios are almost the "timeline" of that ruler's active lifespan. This is sort of a personal preference by Chen Shou, which being a personal history originallyends up doing sort of in place of a timeline scroll of the whole era.

His bio does contain a pretty clear overule of his ruling years and I think that the lack of things he "actually did" (keep in mind that all the appointing and demoting that goes on are his actions and anything that seems as though it would just be handed by a "higher power" in other bios and here are just Liu Shan workiung) is in part due to the fact that he didn't do all that much. A lot of ruling is administrative duties. Liu Shan's were remarkably dull in the fact that he basically went from one high minister to the next to run everything. Zhuge Liang -> Dong Yun -> Fei Yi -> Jiang Wei (I'm missing some) and he had little work to do! Also Shu had no official history and the independent histories don't appear to be as full in general as the Wei and Wu sources that are in the notes appear to be, so many of his quotations and actions that were of any significance or just noteworthy (See Sun Quan on a billion different things). So I guess it's because of him not being the most interesting cat and perhaps a record problem.
无口为天,有口为吴,君临万邦,天子之都
Historical Post
Lu Kang
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:04 am

Unread postby Exar Kun » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:41 am

Just to correct you,the Shu high ministers went like this:

Zhuge Liang - Jiang Wan - Fei Yi - Dong Yun - Zhuge Zhan/Fan Jian/Dong Jue
"Two there should be; no more, no less.
One to embody the power, the other to crave it."
-Creed of the New Sith-
User avatar
Exar Kun
Dark Lord of the Sith
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:18 am
Location: Cruising the Nether


Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved