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Unread postby JoopFox » Sat Mar 08, 2003 5:55 pm

First of all, sorry if this has been asked before.

Yesterday I was playing Romance of the Three Kingdoms 4 (PC), which has a short bio for all the officers. When I came across Sun Kuang (4th son Sun Jian), I read that he married Cao Ren's daughter, Cao Cao's niece. It also said, that according to official history, Cao Ren was Cao Caos little Brother.

If I remember correctly, I also heard somewhere that Cousin in Chinese means family, so they really could have been brothers if thats true. But its weird, cuz everywhere ive been, they always say they're cousins.

Can some1 clear this up for me?

Thanks
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:22 pm

Cao Ren was Cao Cao's younger cousin according to Cao Ren's SGZ biography. The Chinese term used to describe their relation is 从弟 (the whole sentence in Chinese is 曹仁字子孝,太祖从弟也) which essentially means younger cousin.

Also, from Sun Kuang's SGZ biography, it states "孙匡字季佐,翊弟也。举孝廉茂才,未试用,卒,时年二十馀。子泰,曹氏之甥也". As such, I think it is actually Sun Kuang's son and not Sun Kuang himself who married someone from the Cao family. I'm not too sure about this so perhaps others can help. :D
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:59 pm

Hmmm do you think Zhou Yu was plotting to kill?
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Unread postby Alucard » Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:38 am

what did yan liang and wen chou do in sgyy/sgz that made them strong.
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Unread postby Xiahou Mao » Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:59 am

Strictly SGYY here..

Wen Chou and Yan Liang were two of Yuan Shao's fiercest generals. Though they didn't participate at Hu Lao Gate, they saw action later against Gongsun Zan. Wen Chou went to duel Gongsun Zan, who only lasted 10 bouts before realizing he was outmatched, and fled. Wen Chou pursued, scattering "the four best" of Gongsun Zan's generals (who were not named), slaying soldiers left and right, and chasing Gongsun Zan as he tried to flee. Just as he was about to kill Gongsun Zan, Zhao Yun arrived and interceded on Zan's behalf. The two exchanged 50 bouts with neither gaining the advantage (despite Wen Chou having already fought for some time), before Gongsun Zan's army arrived to chase Wen Chou off. Thus, Wen Chou became one of the few in the novel to go toe to toe with Zhao Yun and fare well.

When Yuan Shao later squared off against Cao Cao, the two saw action at the Battle of Bai Ma. Yan Liang led Yuan Shao's army, and opened the battle by accepting the challenge of Song Xian to duel, and cutting him down after only 3 bouts. Wei Xu, angered at his comrade's death, volunteered to fight next, but had his head split open by Yan Liang's first attack. The two former men of Lu Bu dead, now Xu Huang went forward to fight. After 20 bouts, he was forced to flee from the fierce Yan Liang. Chagrined, Cao Cao turned to Guan Yu to ask for his help, and Guan Yu mounted Red Hare and charged into battle. He came upon Yan Liang before Liang even noticed him, and killed him while he was surprised.

Wen Chou led the army seeking revenge for Yan Liang. Commanding a hundred thousand troops, he marched on Cao Cao, but through a strategm of Cao Cao's he was ambushed and forced into flight. Cao Cao ordered his men pursue, and Zhang Liao and Xu Huang both took up the call and chased down Wen Chou. Wen Chou turned in his saddle and fired arrows at Zhang Liao, the first arrow hit Zhang Liao's cap and took it off his head without harming him, while the second arrow hit his horse in the head and spilled him onto the ground. With Zhang Liao thus out of the picture, Wen Chou turned back to face Xu Huang, and several of Wen Chou's cavalry had regrouped by this point, which led Xu Huang to retreat. At this time, a small force of soldiers led by Guan Yu approached, and they engaged Wen Chou's band. After 3 bouts, Wen Chou grew frightened and turned to flee, but he could not outrun Red Hare and was cut down from behind.

I hope that helps answer some of your questions. ;) The circumstances of their deaths are different in the SGZ, of course, so hopefully someone else can add them in later.
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Unread postby JoopFox » Sun Mar 09, 2003 5:55 pm

Okay thanks Great Deer.
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Unread postby Sun jian » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:51 pm

Does anyone know about the Sun family line? If Sun Jian's father was a farmer, how did Jian get any status? Also, where can i find out about the Sun family in great detail? I'm curious about the descendants of my favorite character; along with others I'm sure. 8-)
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:56 pm

Sun jian wrote:Does anyone know about the Sun family line? If Sun Jian's father was a farmer, how did Jian get any status? Also, where can i find out about the Sun family in great detail? I'm curious about the descendants of my favorite character; along with others I'm sure. 8-)

Sun Jian fought with some pirates and his efforts and courage were recognised by the local officials (at the age of 17 I think). It was also mentioned that Sun Jian was a descendent of Sun Tzu in his SGZ biography. :D
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Unread postby Mengdez New Book » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:12 pm

Sun jian wrote:Does anyone know about the Sun family line? If Sun Jian's father was a farmer, how did Jian get any status? Also, where can i find out about the Sun family in great detail? I'm curious about the descendants of my favorite character; along with others I'm sure. 8-)


When Sun Jian was 17 years old, he followed his father to go to Qian Tang. They travelled by Boat. Then, the boat stopped when they saw a group of pirates at the Island nearby. Sun Jian went to have a check and came back told his father that he could defeat those pirates. He pretended that he was goverment officers. He shouted and kept waving his hands to fool those pirates. Those pirates thought that the officers were coming to capture them quickly flee for thier life. From that day on, Sun Jian became famous. He was invited by governor of Wu. There, he helped the governor to guard the city and captured theives or robbers.

After a year pass, the Yellow Turban Rebellion occured. The governor of Wu received a task from Han government, he promoted Sun Jian to be Si Ma (Dynasty Han rank's name) and sent him to attacked Xu Sheng (one of the Yellow Turban's head). He recruited about 1,000 strong peasants and launched his attack. He broke Xu Sheng's armies and executed him during the war. I think from here he began to show his talent until entered the Sanguo stage. :D

Oops, i didn't see Great Deer thread, sorry about that. :?
Last edited by Mengdez New Book on Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:52 pm

Kevz wrote:I m waondering how did PangDe died? and the duel between Guan Yu and Pang De, who is the victorist?


I'll try to reply your queries based on Pang De's SGZ biography. :D

Pang De died when he was captured and executed by Guan Yu. This happened after a flash flood came and flooded his army. Pang De was the victor in that duel and because Pang De was riding on a white horse, Guan Yu's soldiers became scared of the white horse general.
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