Dilu/Hex Mark translation

Discuss literature (e.g. books, newspapers), educational studies (getting help or opinions on homework or an essay), and philosophy.

Dilu/Hex Mark translation

Unread postby XuanPin » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:11 am

I can't figure our how the translation "hex mark" — or anything else is derived from Dilu 的 盧: di is bulls-eye; evident; genuine; lu is black; rice-pot; hound; brazier; wineshop; pupil of eye. I can't figure out how the possible meanings combine to produce "hex mark." Is this just a phonetic magic word? Am I misdsing something? I Mathews inadequate to the task?

I checked the threads, but can't find lexical analysis of the name on site.

Thanks in advance i
User avatar
XuanPin
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:29 am

Re: Dilu/Hex Mark translation

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:18 am

Dilu is a specific kind of horse as opposed to only Hex Mark.
Horses with a white forehead extending to their mouths as far as the front teeth are called Elm Geese, or White Foreheads (Dilu). If a slave rides one, he will die in a strange land, and if the owner rides, he will be executed in the market-place. It is an ill-omened horse.
"Looking at Zhong Hui is like viewing an armory, one sees only spears and lances"
— Pei Kai
Check out this list of historical resources I have.
Check out this list of cited biographies I have written.
User avatar
DaoLunOfShiji
Scholar
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:26 pm
Location: "A genius like Cao Zhi, as martial as Cao Cao."

Re: Dilu/Hex Mark translation

Unread postby XuanPin » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:31 am

DaoLunOfShiji wrote:Dilu is a specific kind of horse as opposed to only Hex Mark.
Horses with a white forehead extending to their mouths as far as the front teeth are called Elm Geese, or White Foreheads (Dilu). If a slave rides one, he will die in a strange land, and if the owner rides, he will be executed in the market-place. It is an ill-omened horse.


Thank you, but please give the source of this quote, so I can understand the basis of these interpretations. In any event the quote does not clarify the words di and lu literally.


The translation of Dilu remains an unresolved problem. Roberts gives a note in which he says that dilu is literally "target skull." The reading of di as target is in Mathews, but lu as skull is not supported by this dictionary. Roberts notes that "White forehead" is the translation of dilu offered elsewhere for this term, but unfortunately he does not quote the passage.

The white (blaze on the ) forehead interpretation is corroborated by the San Guo passage

此馬眼下有淚槽,額邊生白點,名為的盧,
This horse has tear-tracks running down from its eyes and a white blaze on its forehead. It is called a Dilu horse

But this states that a dilu horse has these markings, which is not the same as saying "white blaze" is the translation of dilu (which in fact it is not.)

So we must still ask what dilu literally means. Robert's "skull" for lu seems to have no justification. I'm guessing that that the literal translation is "bullseye black" and that the the meaning is that the horse is cursed, that is, it makes makes one a target for misfortune.

"Hex mark" is an evocative phrase, but not a translation of the term. I don't remember who came up with it, I found it on the internet I think.
User avatar
XuanPin
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:29 am

Re: Dilu/Hex Mark translation

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:38 am

It's from the Shishuo Xinyu, apart of a larger passage
1-31. Among the horses which Yu Liang used to ride there was a White Forehead (Dilu) horse. When someone suggested that he sell it, Yu replied, “If I sell it, there has to be a buyer, and so I will be harming the new owner. I would far rather inconvenience myself than shift the risk to someone else. Long ago, Sun Shu’ao killed a two-headed snake for the benefit of those who might come after him. Isn’t it a mark of understanding to imitate the excellent stories of antiquity?”

*Horses with a white forehead extending to their mouths as far as the front teeth are called Elm Geese, or White Foreheads (Dilu). If a slave rides one, he will die in a strange land, and if the owner rides, he will be executed in the market-place. It is an ill-omened horse.

*When Sun Shu’ao (~600 BC) was a boy, he went out on the road and saw a two-headed snake, which he killed and buried. When he came home and saw his mother he was crying. She asked the reason, and he answered, “The person who sees a two-headed snake is sure to die. Today I went and saw one, and that’s why I’m crying.” His mother asked, “Where is the snake now?” He answered, “I was afraid people coming after me would see it, so I killed and buried it.” His mother said, “Whoever does good in secret will surely be rewarded openly. You have nothing to worry about.” Subsequently he rose to favor at court in Chu, and when he was grown he became Prime Minister.
"Looking at Zhong Hui is like viewing an armory, one sees only spears and lances"
— Pei Kai
Check out this list of historical resources I have.
Check out this list of cited biographies I have written.
User avatar
DaoLunOfShiji
Scholar
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:26 pm
Location: "A genius like Cao Zhi, as martial as Cao Cao."

Re: Dilu/Hex Mark translation

Unread postby XuanPin » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:22 am

Ah! That is the text (Shishuo Xinyu) the 5th century historical work, which Roberts refers to in his note. I had no idea what it was, but your citation led me to google it, and your full quotation was both kind and helpful. For age, it's a valuable witness to the notion of enchanted horse in the 3K period. Clearly a horse with such markings was considered "dilu", which I am interpreting as "enchanted/unlucky" (i.e., bullseye-black, making one the target of misfortune.)

My understanding of the context is enriched by your citation. Thank you.
User avatar
XuanPin
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:29 am


Return to Literature, Academics, and Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved