Zhao Yun!

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Do you Agree

Yes
15
48%
No
16
52%
 
Total votes : 31

Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:32 am

I think kingdoms can do a lot worse then a kindly meant incompetent who is able to retain power and who did see 30 years of prosperity. A lot lot worse. See most Wu rulers once Quan goes senile for a string of bad rulers.

They certainly threw a lot of one's or two's if Shan was that bad :wink:
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Striga » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:27 am

Why is it that all the main rulers were worse than their predecessors?
Liu Shan<Liu Bei
Sun line<Sun Quan, Sun Ce, Sun Jian
Cao line<Cao Pi<Cao Cao
Even with like Liu Biao, Liu Qi was sickly, and Liu Cong was even more inept than Liu Shan.

This is off topic, but it never was on topic since this thread was restarted. :P
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:03 am

I would suggest making a topic about that actually.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Virginie » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:00 pm

Oooops!!! I voted too quickly!

I DON'T agree with the first post of this topic!

First of all, I don’t think Zhao Yun had the ability of knowing the future. He was fulfilling his duty of protecting his master's family to the best of his ability. Liu Shan was only a baby back then; who knew what would happen with him when he grew up (also bringing in the fact that not all babies live until adulthood)?

Now this is more of a joke: Liu Shan's carelessness about Shu might resulted from some sort of concussion when Liu Bei hurled him onto the ground. I don't think Zhao Yun anticipated this when he rode back with Liu Shan because he reacted quite violently.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:32 am

I would't worry about voting wrong, I have done that and not sure anyone takes these polls seriously

Virginie wrote:First of all, I don’t think Zhao Yun had the ability of knowing the future. He was fulfilling his duty of protecting his master's family to the best of his ability. Liu Shan was only a baby back then; who knew what would happen with him when he grew up (also bringing in the fact that not all babies live until adulthood)?


Agreed. Zhao Yun can't predict the future, what he can predict is Liu Shan being captured by Wei might be a problem and he had his duty to perform. Even knowing a man's talent before he becomes King isn't that helpful towards predicting if he would be a good ruler, let alone a mere babe in arms

Mind you, if Zhao Yun could read the future then Shu likely owes him big time for rescuing Shan (more historical then novel but even then, probably justified to say Shan was better then alternatives).

Virginie wrote:Now this is more of a joke: Liu Shan's carelessness about Shu might resulted from some sort of concussion when Liu Bei hurled him onto the ground. I don't think Zhao Yun anticipated this when he rode back with Liu Shan because he reacted quite violently.


Yeah I don't think the novel's touchdown moment has aged well. LGZ was probably meaning for it to a passage showing how much Liu Bei valued his men, a dramatic gesture and makes no connection towards that with how he portrays Liu Shan later. Nowadays it looks bad for Liu Bei throwing a child to the floor and leads people to think it might be reason behind Liu Shan's failings
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby Virginie » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:32 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Yeah I don't think the novel's touchdown moment has aged well. LGZ was probably meaning for it to a passage showing how much Liu Bei valued his men, a dramatic gesture and makes no connection towards that with how he portrays Liu Shan later. Nowadays it looks bad for Liu Bei throwing a child to the floor and leads people to think it might be reason behind Liu Shan's failings


Yeah, agreed; that's why I was joking. :lol: It's funny every time I think about it.

Until now, I'm still debating with myself about if Liu Bei did that out of strong emotions or just to show off how he cared about his men. Oh well, I don't think that happened in history at all, but I'm leaning toward the first assumption.
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Re: Zhao Yun!

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:57 pm

There's no evidence to suggest Liu Bei ever engaged in any historical baby football. Romance Liu Bei does have the line about 'women and children being like clothing' or whatever it was, essentially saying they were disposable if memory serves right.

The whole idea is basically "This general is worth more than my own son!", but to modern eyes it comes across as an abusive father who throws infants when he is handed them.
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