Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:35 pm



I don't seem to have anything on Wei Yue. The Biographical Dictionary of the Later Han to Three Kingdom's mentions a Wei Yue being the son of Wei Xin, but that is all that it says.

SGZ, Biography of Sun Liang: “That winter, in the tenth month, the taifu Zhuge Ke led troops to obstruct Chaohu and build fortifications at Dongxing, having the jiangjun Quan Duan guard the western fortress and the duyu Liu Lüeh the eastern fortress.”

From the Han Jin chunqiu, where the following passage precedes: “Sun Quan had built a dam at Dongxing to obstruct the Chaohu. When he afterwards attacked Huainan the dam was wrecked, and it was not repaired any more. In this year, Zhuge Ke, directing his troops, on the hills impinging upon the dam to the left and right constructed two fortifications. He had Quan Duan and Liu Lüeh guard them. He then returned with the troops.”


Liu Lue followed Zhuge Ke to the ever incredible victory at Lake Chao and was responsible for the construction of the forts which lead to the incredible victory over Hu Zun.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:34 am

Heh. Thats cool. But did he ever participate in military activities excluding building fortresses?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:32 am

I don't have anything recorded on him. I'd imagine he did, but he just wasn't recorded. At least not that I am aware of.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:52 am

Thanks by the way!
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:00 am

Wei Yue from Lu Bu's sgz
Lü Bu possessed a good steed named Chi Tu (Red Hare). Together with his confidants Cheng Lian and Wei Yue, Lü Bu led frequent attacks on Zhang Yan’s troops and eventually defeated him.


I have nothing else on Liu Lue
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:10 pm

Last edited by Han on Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Kushan Embassador » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:26 pm

Hi everybody! I have just joined this forum so this is my first post :D .

Well, since a time ago I have been wondering about the situation of the Western Regions and the Chinese military colonies garrisioning strategic networks in the Tarim Basin during the period between the rise to power of Dong Zhou and the annexation of that territories to the Cao Wei state :| . Until which I have just read for myself, it seems that the Han troops in that area were rough frontier warriors with many years of experience in that troublesome regions where they should have to fight frequently against the little legit minor Iranian kingdoms and the Nomads who ravaged the Chinese frontier posts looking out the roads and the oasis. And that these soldiers were under the command of "Chief Officer of the Western Regions" or Wuji colonel who received orders from the governor of Dunhuang.

So who was the commander or commanders who held these positions when Dong Zhou took the power in the capital¿ Were they isolated of the events from the first years of dissolution of the Eastern Han authority having to face for themselves the defense of the frontier or they also took part in the fight in the Central Plains sending troops (even foreign warriors from the minor Central Asian kingdoms subjects to the Han like Shanshan and Yanqi) to the capital¿

Below a map of this region and some of the sources that I have find about this matter:

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Di ... nguo_1.JPG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Off ... ite_note-3

https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/sites/si ... %20han.pdf

http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp17 ... rn0206.pdf

http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/s ... region.pdf
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:12 pm

Welcome Kushan Embassador

The Han was struggling to hold Liang by the 180's, it's expansion days were done and simply trying to maintain areas like Liang was increasingly difficult so I'm not sure they focused muc/at all on anything beyond that province. As far as I know Dong and Huangfu Song were the westernmost commanders during the dying days and weren't really replaced when Dong seized the capital, Liang was left in the local warlord hands of figures like Han Sui and Ma Teng.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Liu Bei did nothing wrong.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:28 pm

Yan Yu: the encyclopaedia's bio history segment (beneath the novel stuff) does ring true from what I remember of Lou Xian's biography, was guarding the south when summoned to help with the defence of Shu both goes missing, seems to have been respected within the court given he was their choice to replace Jiang Wei

Sun YI: All the ZZTJ says
; and had the jiangjun Ding Feng and Sun Yi proceed to Mianzhong
when Wu reinforced Shu/later invaded

Xiahou Wei: From Xiahou Yuan's SGZ annotation
Shìyǔ states: Wēi styled Jìquán. He was chivalrous, and served as Inspector of Jīng and Yǎn, two provinces. His son Jùn was Inspector of Bìngzhōu. The next [son] Zhuāng was Administrator of Huáinán. Zhuāng’s son Zhàn, styled Xiàoruò, was talented and extensive in writings, and reached Chancellor of Nányáng and Scattered Cavalry Regular Attendant. Zhuāng was Jìn’s Empress Jǐng-Yáng‘s older sister’s husband. Because of this the whole household received extravagant favor at the time.
. Yang Hu's has
A general of the province, Xiahou Wei recognized Hu to be someone extraordinary, and married his niece, Xiahou Ba’s 9 daughter, to Hu


Huangfu Kai: ZTTJ has Zhong Hui's memorial to Sima Zhao after fall of Shu
I sent the sima Xiahou Xian, the hujun Hu Lie, et al., to go by way of Jian'ge and cross the Dadu ford at Xindu to intercept them from the front, the canjun Yuan Qing and the jiangjun Gou An, et al., to pursue them, the canjun Huangfu Kai and the jiangjun Wang Mai, et al., to proceed from the South of Fou and rush at their heart. I myself occupied Fouxian with the intention of aiding our troops in the conquest of the region west of it.

Jiang Wei, et al., had under their command forty to fifty thousand infantry and cavalrymen; well armored and carrying excellent weapons. They filled the rivers and valleys for a distance of several hundred li. Their formation was continuous. Relying on their immense number, they were proceeding westward, with their carriages moving in double columns. I ordered Xiahou Xian and Huangfu Kai, et al., to divide their troops and occupy various key positions and spread out their nets; in the south they blocked the route the enemy might take to flee to Wu. In the west they obstructed the road to Chengdu. In the north they cut off the road he might take to flee away. From four sides our troops gathered like clouds, the van and the rear advancing simultaneously. All the mountain paths were thus cut off and no room was left for the enemy to lie in ambush


Dong Heng: Pang De's SGZ has
The generals Dong Heng, Dong Chao and others desired to surrender [to Guan Yu]. Pang De executed all of them
, Raffe's encyclopaedia doesn't seem to have him
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