Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:40 pm

Is West Jin recorded in the SanGuoZhi?

Did either Chen Shou or Pei Song Zhi record the Simas in SanGuoZhi?

Did specifically Chen Shou/ Pei Song Zhi/ Sima Guang give the Simas and their officials an appraisal?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:45 am

As far as I can see in the list of bio's that xuesanguo have put together here, only Sima Zhi and Liang have SGZ biographies.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:34 pm

Yeah I just wanted to double confirm.

Still makes me sad though that the West Jin does not have their individual appraisals. :(
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Fornadan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:46 pm

They do of course have appraisals, just not ones written by Chen Shou.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:51 pm

In fact you can find a link to a partially translated version of the Book of Jin (that contains the pre-mentioned bios) in Fornadan's sig. Just for ease you can also find it here.

I was also unaware that Sima Yi had a bio from the book of Jin or that it was translated until I noticed your sig literally when you just posted Fornadan! Thanks for asking the question Han! :lol:
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:20 pm

Then do either Pei Song Zhi or Sima Guang give appraisals to the Simas or their officials?

If yes, where may I find them?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Fornadan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:43 pm

I don't remember reading any specific appraisals of the Simas by Sima Guang, but you can read Achilles Fang's translation of Zizhi Tongjian chapters covering 220 - 265 here

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22087

If Sima Guang made any judgements on them, you'll most likely find it there.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:53 am

Who wrote the book of Jin, Fornadan?
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Fornadan » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:47 am

The book of Jin does not have a single author, it was created during the early Tang by a committee headed by the high official Fang Xuanling. The more technical treatises probably were written by specialists in those fields.

For the biographical sections, "compiler" might anyway be a better description than "author" in the modern Western sense, since what they have done is to edit together material from the different sources they had available. For example several sections of the Hanjin chunqiu quoted by Pei Songzhi can be found nearly identical in the JS. This is not that unusual in the Chinese historiography tradition though, it's essentially how Sima Guang worked as well.

But in the JS's case, due to the wide variety of sources used, the result is rather heterogeneous. For example Jia Chong's biography is part historical narrative, part sober career summary, part anecdotes and scandalous family history, and part ghost story.
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Re: Three Kingdoms Questions (You Ask, We Answer)

Unread postby Han » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:05 am

Vs Liu Zhang when Liu Bei called for reinforcements, why did he leave Guan Yu and not Zhuge Liang behind? Zhuge Liang had better connections to the gentry of the East Wu through his brother Zhuge Jin and more notably his diplomatic mission before ChiBi. Zhuge Liang has also been in Jing longer than Guan Yu and appeared to have better relationship with Liu Bei. Lastly, Jing Province had been in war for give or take 3 years and the better option seem to be to leave an Administrative talent in Jing like Zhuge Liang instead of a General like Guan Yu for recovery in Jing. While Guan Yu had more experience in Generalship and Zhuge Liang had a reputation of maintaining supply lines while his lord was on campaigns. Calling for Guan to conquer Yi while leaving Zhuge to maintain Jing seems to be a better move.

How do you all rate Jiang Wei as a general?

What were his greatest feats and worst failures?
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