Yuan Shao

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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:17 am

Yuan Shao, to my limited understanding, seemed to be decently well liked by his people. Of course this is just surmising. Was Yuan Shao a good leader to his people, (I'm reminded of the foreign tribes doing all they can to support the Yuans before they're destroyed. To inspire such fierce loyalty from them, would not be an easy task) or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Shen Ai » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:44 pm

Xu Yuan wrote:Yuan Shao, to my limited understanding, seemed to be decently well liked by his people. Of course this is just surmising. Was Yuan Shao a good leader to his people, (I'm reminded of the foreign tribes doing all they can to support the Yuans before they're destroyed. To inspire such fierce loyalty from them, would not be an easy task) or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?


He cultivated a good core of talent and inspired loyalty from skilled men. He had his flaws but I think most adaptations of the man tend to do him a woeful injustice.
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby AxeLordGerardo » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:52 am

I think Yuan Shao is one of the most extent debate themes.

Many people say he was a fatuous lord, and indeed, he was.

He was too labeled by some as a decent commander, and yes, he was.

Some say he was unable to maintain the coallition united, and yes, the coallition ended disintegrated, but it can´t be blamed entirely on him. But we can´t either assure the other lords were in disposition to pursue Dong Zhuo with another warlord in command. I think the other lords were already satisfied with Dong Zhuo´s fleeing the capital and they hadn´t enough motivation to go ahead. I have my doubts about Yuan Shao being guilty in this. There was many internal strife in the coallition during the campaign. I think Cao Cao was trying to use Yuan Shao as the head to direct the campaign himself from the shadows, but his scheme finally ended in failure.
Yuan Shao demanded the Hereditary Seal when Sun Jian found it, but he did not returned to him even being at command. We will never know what would happen to Yuan Shao with the Seal in his hands, but the general sentiment between the different lords is that of rebellion inside themselves.

I always think Yuan Shao had the chance to do better himself, but the neccesary elements never aligned themselves to his favor. Yuan Shao stage is divided between his own deeds from his young career, a key figure for the destruction of the Eunuchs and a fairly decent adviser for He Jin, and the fame and resourcefulness of his officers and generals he managed to obtain after the North was conquered.

We have young Yuan Shao cleverness and ability by himself in one side and the potential of his army on the other hand.

Simply if we mix the best Yuan Shao version with the potential of the army he amassed by the time of Guan Du, his advance could be nearly unstoppable. It is such a pity what happened to him.
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:46 pm

I think nowadays, one doesn't hear criticism over Yuan Shao's handling of the Coalition. I think people realize it was an unruly mess he had little control of, I think perhaps we still don't fully comprehend how weak a hand he had
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Ouyang_Feng » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:20 pm

This guy is wasted many talents, Xun Yu and Guo Jia used to serve him but they didn't saw him as worth master to serve, he never listen to Ju Shou and Tian Feng, Zhang He and Gao Lan deserted him.. well that's what Yuan Shao all about
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:51 am

Yuan Shao messed up badly with his officers at Guandu (though his advisers advice is more questionable then conventionally seen) but Ju Shou was a fairly minor though rising figure in Ji but Yuan Shao promoted him to his most senior officer and followed a fair bit of his plan for conquering the north so can hardly be said to have never listened. Zhang He rose under Yuan Shao, Qu Yi became a star commander, Yuan Tan became a famed commander, he used Peng Ji's plan to conquer Ji, he used Chen Lin's expertise. Other warlords also suffered defections

Yuan Shao handled his officers badly at Guandu, possibly becuase of the heir situation, but he also was an excellent networker, alliance maker, a good commander and someone who rose from one city to a major player in the north
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Ouyang_Feng » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:01 am

Dong Zhou wrote:Yuan Shao messed up badly with his officers at Guandu (though his advisers advice is more questionable then conventionally seen) but Ju Shou was a fairly minor though rising figure in Ji but Yuan Shao promoted him to his most senior officer and followed a fair bit of his plan for conquering the north so can hardly be said to have never listened. Zhang He rose under Yuan Shao, Qu Yi became a star commander, Yuan Tan became a famed commander, he used Peng Ji's plan to conquer Ji, he used Chen Lin's expertise. Other warlords also suffered defections

Yuan Shao handled his officers badly at Guandu, possibly becuase of the heir situation, but he also was an excellent networker, alliance maker, a good commander and someone who rose from one city to a major player in the north


Well he did have some quality before Guan Du, but right before Guan Du was a downhill for him
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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:30 pm

That has been a common theory (or question), I'm not sure it is true. I think the heir thing got out of control for him but at Guandu, he simply faced a superior commander (Yuan Shao was an able warlord but he was a not great one) and he got outplayed by a more daring superior figure.
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