RTK IX: Discussion Thread

[Bush Leagues]

oh, your duel story reminded me. It would have been really nice to have an option for your units to avoid duels. Like they already have options for your unit to pursue a retreating one, engage one if they encounter one, etc. Just tack on the option to avoid duels. I like to load up my units with 5 officers, not always with great war, so that would have been nice. Even when they have good war I still sometimes don't want them to. Deng Ai, while serving me, once got Jia Xu in to a duel. I'm pretty sure Jia Xu isn't going to do that..ever. And it was the 2nd duel those two units had that turn. Lowering their morale so far and making them retreat with over 10k troops doesn't serve me well when my tower unit is wailing on the city. Just trigger a friggin tactic.

One to alter the RNG for duels would be great. Picking "avoid" or "engage" for duels (or whatever you want to call them - one to attempt to avoid, one to attempt to get into them) shouldn't be an end-all be-all answer to them. It would be nice to have them either trigger more often or less often, depending on each armies' choices, though. I like the decision for deciding whether to have front-line guys already, though. It's a risk for that extra officer or two - do you take a chance on a duel you'll almost certainly lose? The answer is no, by the way.

Just watch out for Lu Bu in his mallet. Even trying to avoid duels won't save you there!

[Gray Riders]

This topic filled me with fond memories and I decided to boot IX up again.

I decided to play as the yellow turbans in 184 on Expert. My created offiers are all historical figures and none of them start out working for Zhang Jiao; I did find and hire a few, but none are super amazing (the best was Wei Yue, who was a 70s lead and war guy). It's definitely a somewhat different game than most others. You start with an obscenely high troop to officer ratio. There's a ton of free officers in your cities, but your advisor is pretty bad. You'll do very little domestic work; it's a short game and sheer number of cities helps you go for a while, and you can grab tons of free cities to keep up supplies while spending money on rewards and drafting. I noticed He Jin seemed to ignore his officer's loyalty for the first few seasons; I was eventually able to get Dong Zhuo to defect as a result, and I've never been happier to see him!
I knew that Xun Yu was in Ying Chuan, and that I'd need him for my new advisor. Luckily I got him and he helped me recruit the various Wei int and pol officers in Xu Chang, who I began shipping north to hire the Yuan Shao aligned officers there.

Eventually the Han sent forces to take Ye; Lu Zhi and Yuan Shao were leading two big tower units from Shang Dang and Jin Yang respectively, while Chunyu Qiong and Guan Yu brought foot soldiers from Ji. I charged in troops from Ping Yuan and Nan Pi; had a lot of troops but few good officers; I hadn't found the Xiahous yet (I assumed they'd be in Chen Liu; turns out they're in Qiaoxian near Ru Nan!) and my only really good fighter was Wen Chou, who joined very recently--in fact I hired him during the battle and moved him to Ye, rewarding all the while. I had a nail biting moment when I had to send him out with 89 Loyalty, knowing that if he betrayed me I'd lose Ye, and if I lost Ye I lost He Bei and probably the war. Thankfully he stayed loyal and smashed up the big Han units. I managed to get more good generals soon after; the two Xiahous, Ju Shou, and Yan Liang. Yuan Shao was captured at Ye and surrendered, too.

Angry at this failure, He Jin sent massive forces from Luo Yang and Wan to take Xu Chang. I'd been anticipating that for a while, though, and Xu Chang had tons of soldiers. I concluded that He Jin's attack was an "all-in"--he couldn't attack any of my other cities with the number of troops, so I sent all my good combat officers to Xu Chang. The Han armies got crushed--the highlight was He Jin's 40,000 man tower unit eating an Illusion from Zhang Bao and losing nearly half his troops. .
He Jin was taken and beheaded (a mistake, in retrospect--I knew it would make it impossible to hire his officers for a few seasons, but I was hoping from of his cities would split off) and Liu Biao took over.

After this victory, I knew it was time to take the capital. I decided to march from Yan province rather than Xu Chang, as I miscalculated and figured I'd be able to capture Hu Lao gate before any serious reinforcements arrived then quickly hit Luo Yang.
I gathered over 120,000 troops in Yan and stormed Hu Lao gate. As mentioned, I miscaculated and it turned into a bloodbath with Liu Biao sending almost every soldier he had south of Jin Yang to the battle. Lu Zhi defended it well but Liu Biao took over the defense personally, and with his poor Leadership, war, and bow exp, the gate fell surprisingly quickly and took down over 40,000 members of Liu Biao's rapidly shrinking army with it. He'd thrown basically everything he had left into defending the gate; one big army remains in Jin Yang but the Han south of the yellow river only have about 10,000 troops in each city. Luo Yang fell in one turn, and the Han dynasty officially ended. The remanants of it's army prepare themselves, but must know they cannot win, Zhang Jiao's forces grow daily, while the Han cannot even replenish the losses they've suffered in the recent battles.

[Bush Leagues]

A lengthy and detailed AAR.

Nice work! The 184 scenario is rough as the YT. I feel like it would be fun to do that one as a one-on-one game against another player. I suspect the Han have the advantage there, with the skill and ability of their officers at the outset.

The last time I played I was Han Fu in 190. You start out with a bunch of average, Han Fu (who has POL, basically), but those guys are less important than Ju Shou and Zhang He, easily the two best in the force. Ju Shou isn't perfect, but he's certainly passable.

Being in the coalition gives you protection from other nearby forces (notably Yuan Shao, who's already powerful) in the first year, except for Zhang Yan and Zhang Yang, who aren't a part of it. I spent the first year stabilizing domestics and launched an attack on Zhang Yang (the northern one, I forget the city name). I managed to handle him fine and take the city, eliminating his force. Just at the same time Dong Zhuo took Zhang Yan's Shang Dang, eliminating him from the game. Dong Zhuo had far more troops than I in our new cities - he used most of Luo Yang's forces to take Shang Sang.

Anyway, Dong Zhuo launched an attack on my new city. He led one of the units personally, while others brought a tower. I arranged to have the tower smashed, and then focused everything on Dong, making sure to have faster formations than he did (Wedge is so good). I managed to capture him once his unit dissolved, and executed him on the spot. This ended the coalition in victory and gave me a huge reputation boost (100 repute)! I also got his Seven Star Sword he begins the game with. A nice item to bring Zhang He to the 100's range in his WAR.

I haven't played past this point yet, and there are several ways to go - I can take Shang Dang against Guo Si's (I believe he took command) force, or turn on my former coalition members who are weaker than I. The likes of Liu Bei or Liu Yu's forces would be a nice boon to have on my side.

Had I video recording equipment, I would be tempted to make a Let's Play, possibly with a few friends who might be convinced to play with me. I searched Youtube before but found no ROTK IX let's play videos. I think it would be fun to watch one.

[Gray Riders]

Nice work! The 184 scenario is rough as the YT. I feel like it would be fun to do that one as a one-on-one game against another player. I suspect the Han have the advantage there, with the skill and ability of their officers at the outset.

Thanks! I was honestly expecting a lot more trouble winning. To some extent I got pretty lucky; it was entirely possible Xun Yu and some of the other Wei guys would move away from Xu Chang and ended up with the Han--without him as an Advisor it was a lot harder recruiting. Ju Shou did wander into Ji for a bit while free, but he came back and eventually joined me.

In MP, I think the turbans will win if they get lucky with recruiting free officers early on; Expert gives the AI a lot more troops at start but I still outnumbered the Han, so in a multiplayer game the turbans could probably win with an early rush if they get enough officers early on. Hard to say for certain though.

I haven't played past this point yet, and there are several ways to go - I can take Shang Dang against Guo Si's (I believe he took command) force, or turn on my former coalition members who are weaker than I. The likes of Liu Bei or Liu Yu's forces would be a nice boon to have on my side.

Nicely done taking out Dong Zhuo so early! I'd probably kick Guo Si out of Shang Dang then start smashing up the coalition, but that's just me.

Edit: YTR finished. A lot of the Han soldiers were lost to one of IX's less well thought out featurse when the Wu Wan trampled Ji and the AI ignores them. Liu Biao surrendered after losing Wan, Chang An, and Shang Dang. Got a bad ending (is it even possible to get a good ending in 184 without doing something weird?) with Zhang Liang and Zhang Bao turning on each other.

[Huang Bob]

Edit: YTR finished. A lot of the Han soldiers were lost to one of IX's less well thought out featurse when the Wu Wan trampled Ji and the AI ignores them.

What I like to do is add the tribes as playable forces when I start a scenario, then give them over to the computer right away. It turns them into a regular AI force. They don't always do much, but at least they aren't a constant harassment you have to feed gold into. Most of the time they just surrender to people and give them another 5 officers. They work pretty well for city defense if you end up with 4 of them and a smart guy to throw in there.

[Gray Riders]

What I like to do is add the tribes as playable forces when I start a scenario, then give them over to the computer right away. It turns them into a regular AI force. They don't always do much, but at least they aren't a constant harassment you have to feed gold into. Most of the time they just surrender to people and give them another 5 officers. They work pretty well for city defense if you end up with 4 of them and a smart guy to throw in there.

I usually do that. I didn't this time since in 184 it would mean marching across China to finish off the Shanyue and the Nanman, far from anything else. It just reminded me of how odd it is that the AI just completely ignores the tribes, as if it doesn't even realize they exist.

[LiuBeiwasGreat]

Sigh, you two are really making me want to play this game again. I no longer have a PS2, this and 10 were my favorite RTK games. The only one I have access to is the PC version of 11 which in the end is better then nothing. Sigh.

I remember playing as the Yellow Turbans, I managed to take out Sun Jian and Gongsun Zan but then He Jin started wrecking me as I wasn't able to get too many new officers. I think my playstyle was too passive back then. I always wanted to get my domestics in order before attacking, and with the YT you need to attack as fast as possible before the other factions with vastly superior officers can build up.

[Gray Riders]

IX is one game where I feel embarassed looking back at how badly I used to play. I'd put all my best officers in one giant unit, so I'd have a few strong units and a bunch of mediocre ones, so I'd eat lots of Disrupts. I'd also use a small number of giant units so I'd take very heavy damage from larger number of smaller units.

[Bush Leagues]

IX is one game where I feel embarassed looking back at how badly I used to play. I'd put all my best officers in one giant unit, so I'd have a few strong units and a bunch of mediocre ones, so I'd eat lots of Disrupts. I'd also use a small number of giant units so I'd take very heavy damage from larger number of smaller units.

I'm certainly not great at IX either. I remember people talking about trying to win as clearly inferior forces in tough spots (like Kong Zhou ever), and thinking how useless I would be in the same game.

Honestly, Han Fu is the hardest game I've tried yet. I really need to step my game up.

What I like to do is add the tribes as playable forces when I start a scenario, then give them over to the computer right away. It turns them into a regular AI force. They don't always do much, but at least they aren't a constant harassment you have to feed gold into. Most of the time they just surrender to people and give them another 5 officers. They work pretty well for city defense if you end up with 4 of them and a smart guy to throw in there.

I also do this. Little odd seeing enemy forces (or my force) with 'Shan Yue Master" or what have you, but otherwise it works decently.

What are you guys' favorite scenarios? I usually prefer 190 or 194, just because those are the times with the most parody.

[LiuBeiwasGreat]

While I usually did play in the 190 and 194 as well, I had a soft spot for several of the hypothetical scenarios. I loved playing the 190 where Yuan Shu, Yuan Shao, and Gongsun Zan had half the forces merged with their's. You know the one where Sun Jian and people serve Yuan Shu, Cao Cao and company serves Yuan Shao, and Liu Bei's and Tao Qian's people serve Gongsun Zan. I liked playing as either Yuan Shu or Gongsun Zan during that one.

However my favorite, (this one might shock you ) was the one where Liu Bei and Ma Chao join forces and take Liang and Yong proviences with the Emperor during Guan Du. I believe it was called Long Live the Han or something. Want to take a guess which faction I played there

I would occasionally try to play with one of the weaker factions. I got my butt handed to me many a time.