The World Economics Thread

[TooMuchBaijiu]

Forgot to reply to this earlier. There actually are some National Guard troops deployed to the border but how much they're accomplishing is questionable. For the most part I think it's a terrible idea. For one we're still at war so you're talking about raising the deployment burden just as the campaign in Iraq has come to a close (granted the deployment burden is being kept afloat by cutting down the size of the force).

Now, the proposal was an attempt to address the issue of the number of vets being "released into a depressed workforce", as I believe Shikanosuke put it, and an attempt to keep them occupied. Now, (perhaps I misunderstand you) if putting soldiers on the border would raise the deployment burden, that would mean that they're still needed elsewhere-or are you referring to the financial costs? If it's the latter, remember that in this hypothetical scenario, discharging the soldiers is not an option. Is there some cheaper way to keep them busy, other than perhaps keeping them at a base all day?

The training cycle is also affected because you would have to train troops for a completely different mission than war fighting before you send them, and then if you shift them to a combat mission later on they're out of the loop as far as the most up to date tactics and they're a little bit rusty.

Isn't rust inevitable for soldiers in peacetime? That said, what would be the difficulty in keeping them up to date? And of course, if they're still needed elsewhere, there'd be no need to implement this plan, which again is more about keeping them out of the job market than anything else. Also, my own job essentially involves letting the right people in and keeping the wrong people out of a facility. Training began and ended within two days. I understand that border patrol would certainly be more complex, but how much more so?

If you ship overland to the border you would have to pay American truckers much more to bring the supplies into remote locations, or even not-so-remote locations.

The long-haul company I deal with pays its drivers 22 cents a mile. The in-city guys make about $40 a trip, I believe. And owner-operators have to fuel their vehicles out of pocket as well. There's also a rail network that runs near most of the border, as well as highways. There are a few areas where I would imagine this being a problem (Southwest Texas, mostly), but I wonder how many regions on the border are really that remote. I do admit the military transportation problem does seem daunting.

The biggest reason why I think it's a bad idea is that when I was in Afghanistan I had to point a loaded weapon at people sometimes. American soldiers are not going to want to point guns a American citizens who happen to be near the border or at Mexican citizens who want to get a job.

Can't this be avoided? I'd think it would go without saying that anyone patrolling the border wouldn't be authorized to use lethal force unless in self-defense-like cops. Cops aren't supposed to pull out the guns until they feel their lives could be at risk, and I doubt many immigrants are armed and dangerous. Isn't there some kind of procedure that could be adopted?

Why even throw more money at a losing solution in the first place? No matter how tight you make security at the border people are still going to come.

It's a deterrent. Of course they'll keep coming, but it can't hurt to try to minimize illegal migration. And again, I can't think of a cheaper way to keep soldiers busy without discharging them. If you've got a better idea, believe me, I'm all ears.

State authorities have cracked down on farmers for using Mexican labor, and the only thing that's changed is now we're importing the produce directly from Mexico and the food safety standards are not as high.

That is an unfortunate consequence, but the solution to that is a problem for someone else to figure out. But I don't think the idea of allowing farmers to continue using illegal labor is a popular one in this country.

[Dong Zhou]

Talks of postponing the Greek elections, presumably to get certain parts of the deal through by the more extreme/radical parties win power. Only talk so far, could just be meaningless but really hope the EU can contain itself from further overriding/destroying Greek democracy and let the elections happen on... April 8th I believe?

[laojim]

...

The long-haul company I deal with pays its drivers 22 cents a mile. The in-city guys make about $40 a trip, I believe. And owner-operators have to fuel their vehicles out of pocket as well. There's also a rail network that runs near most of the border, as well as highways. There are a few areas where I would imagine this being a problem (Southwest Texas, mostly), but I wonder how many regions on the border are really that remote. I do admit the military transportation problem does seem daunting.
.....

Do you mean they are still paying only 22 cents a mile? I started at that in 1990. Remarkable.

Most of the US border with Mexico is fairly remote to most of the people in the south and, come to think of it, to most of the people in the north. The only area where it is really an urban border is part of southern California and, in a different way, El Paso. Most of West Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona, with some of California, is hazardous, difficult, and arid. They have all but dropped the much ballyhooed automatic sensors and they still don't know how to handle the remote ecology and reservations. I thought that most of those guardsmen had been removed.

[TooMuchBaijiu]

Do you mean they are still paying only 22 cents a mile? I started at that in 1990. Remarkable.

http://www.thetruckersreport.com/trucki ... ience.html

To be fair, I understand CRST really is one of the crappiest trucking companies out there. And from personal experience, I can tell you that their dispatchers would have been executed in the USSR for wrecking.

What's funny is that one poster even said "22 CPM sets you back about fifteen years"! Guess you were right on the money. Personally, if I were one of those guys, I wouldn't work for anything less than 40, but there's a sucker born every minute.

Most of the US border with Mexico is fairly remote to most of the people in the south and, come to think of it, to most of the people in the north. The only area where it is really an urban border is part of southern California and, in a different way, El Paso. Most of West Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona, with some of California, is hazardous, difficult, and arid. They have all but dropped the much ballyhooed automatic sensors and they still don't know how to handle the remote ecology and reservations. I thought that most of those guardsmen had been removed.

The border may not be the most population region, but from the maps I've seen there is a road network that runs parallel to most of it.

[laojim]

...

Most of the US border with Mexico is fairly remote to most of the people in the south and, come to think of it, to most of the people in the north. The only area where it is really an urban border is part of southern California and, in a different way, El Paso. Most of West Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona, with some of California, is hazardous, difficult, and arid. They have all but dropped the much ballyhooed automatic sensors and they still don't know how to handle the remote ecology and reservations. I thought that most of those guardsmen had been removed.

The border may not be the most population region, but from the maps I've seen there is a road network that runs parallel to most of it.

There are short stretches where the roads, the main roads, pass within a few feet of the border on the north side. This is the case in El Paso and in the Mojave of California from Yuma half way to Calexico. The railroad runs along the border in El Paso but most of the border roads are back roads and ranch roads with some of the areas closed off. I understand the Oragan Pipe Cactus national park, on the border in Arizona, is open again but it was closed for some time. Apparently just driving close to the border is regarded as suspicious these days. unless you are on one of those main roads.

I don't recall 22 cents being thought of as a high wage when I was driving so it surely must not be today. I have not been keeping up with such matters.

[Zhuanyong]

Do you mean they are still paying only 22 cents a mile? I started at that in 1990. Remarkable.

http://www.thetruckersreport.com/trucki ... ience.html

To be fair, I understand CRST really is one of the crappiest trucking companies out there. And from personal experience, I can tell you that their dispatchers would have been executed in the USSR for wrecking.

What's funny is that one poster even said "22 CPM sets you back about fifteen years"! Guess you were right on the money. Personally, if I were one of those guys, I wouldn't work for anything less than 40, but there's a sucker born every minute.

Before my dad died about 3 and half years ago, he was making 35 CPM. I can't remember who he worked for but, I think it was possibly Schneider or another.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that truckers are severly underpaid as it is.

[Dong Zhou]

I can understand the Greeks fury with Germany and comparisons to WW2, also any anger with the German (and European) portrayal of the Greeks as lazy. I do however think using the term Nazi's, dressing Merkel up in a Nazi uniform and such like, using Auschwitz and comparing themselves to the Jews is completely unacceptable.

The growing tensions and stereotypes are worrying enough. The increasing overriding of democracy, the dreadful future for Greece and how far the bile has already gone is extremely alarming for the stability of Europe.

[Lord Yang Jiahua]

I can understand the Greeks fury with Germany and comparisons to WW2, also any anger with the German (and European) portrayal of the Greeks as lazy. I do however think using the term Nazi's, dressing Merkel up in a Nazi uniform and such like, using Auschwitz and comparing themselves to the Jews is completely unacceptable.

The growing tensions and stereotypes are worrying enough. The increasing overriding of democracy, the dreadful future for Greece and how far the bile has already gone is extremely alarming for the stability of Europe.

Well ya!
I mean the Greeks liked their opulent and well-paid lifestyles, and are being spoiled children throwing a fit to try and keep it, when they know in no way they will get it, also defacing a country thats trying to help you like that, doesn't exactly make them want to help you.

[Dong Zhou]

Well ya!
I mean the Greeks liked their opulent and well-paid lifestyles, and are being spoiled children throwing a fit to try and keep it,

1) Just like England when austerity started to bite? Or the greed some countries in the west, and it's people, showed during the good times? It wasn't just a Greek problem, just the consequences have been worse and thus the bile has been at another level.

2) They also like not being homeless and having enough to eat. Or democracy.

when they know in no way they will get it, also defacing a country thats trying to help you like that, doesn't exactly make them want to help you.

In fairness to the less insane insults, it could be argued Germany is screwing Greece over for it's own ends. It won't allow Greece to default but it refuses to do anything more then keep Greece alive, in increasing pain but alive, for a few months at a time. There is no hope at the end of the tunnel for Greece. Even the estimates of a mere 120% of GDP debt in 2020 are considered massively optimistic. That and the Germans have hardly been polite.

Or certain non German ministers.

[Lord Yang Jiahua]

1) Just like England when austerity started to bite? Or the greed some countries in the west, and it's people, showed during the good times? It wasn't just a Greek problem, just the consequences have been worse and thus the bile has been at another level.

2) They also like not being homeless and having enough to eat. Or democracy.

Hmm, didnt think of that, America is pretty well shielded media wise too, so i havent heard anything in the news that it was that bad, we seem to be focusing on Syria more as well.

In fairness to the less insane insults, it could be argued Germany is screwing Greece over for it's own ends. It won't allow Greece to default but it refuses to do anything more then keep Greece alive, in increasing pain but alive, for a few months at a time. There is no hope at the end of the tunnel for Greece. Even the estimates of a mere 120% of GDP debt in 2020 are considered massively optimistic. That and the Germans have hardly been polite.

???How is Germany screwing over Greece?