The vs. Thread

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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:14 pm

Jiang Wei vs Lu Xun?
I'd go with Jiang Wei, becouse he proved to be a valiant general and a great commander. In the novel Lu Xun only exploits Liu Bei's dumbness and fails to gain land against Wei
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Yang Dayang » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:34 pm

Lu Xun, he would mop the floor with Jiang Wei o.o

Lu Xun is like.. one of the best in the era. Jiang Wei is mediocre at best.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:39 pm

History: Lu Xun. By a mile. I'm not even Lu Xun's biggest fan and yet I still this as a Wu victory. Not that Jiang Wei wouldn't put up a reasonable display, despite his many many failings, but with their respective records, only one winner.

Novel: Probably still Lu Xun. I know Lu Xun is more sidelined but still pulls off two strong defensive victories, whatever the abilities of novel Liu Bei and Cao Xiu. Jiang Wei is intelligent but his novel arrogance and temper do get the better of him and I can just see that undermining him.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:01 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:History: Lu Xun. By a mile. I'm not even Lu Xun's biggest fan and yet I still this as a Wu victory. Not that Jiang Wei wouldn't put up a reasonable display, despite his many many failings, but with their respective records, only one winner.

Novel: Probably still Lu Xun. I know Lu Xun is more sidelined but still pulls off two strong defensive victories, whatever the abilities of novel Liu Bei and Cao Xiu. Jiang Wei is intelligent but his novel arrogance and temper do get the better of him and I can just see that undermining him.


I beg to politely differ about arrogance: Lu Xun seemed to me, by far, the most arrogant -or silly at least- strategist of the three kingdoms, as i remember many of his liutenants disliking him; he does neither listen to any piece of advice nor explain his view to his men.
Which was the best between the two commanders is opinable, yet I just feel sad that many people consider Jiang Wei mediocre, or blame him for the downfall of Shu. He he was one of the best commanders of the novel.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:42 pm

Bear in mind a lot of the dislike here for Jiang Wei is due to the historical Jiang Wei. I think Yang's comment about the mediocre Jiang was history based. I do think the novel doesn't completely clear/whitewash him of Shu's fall but does make a very intresting flawed man made good by one last act of heroics.

Lu Xun was right though. He may have struggled to keep order in his first job as CIC, not something he has problems with in his other CIC battles, but the novel makes clear that this is more the fault of his experienced but foolhardy subordinates. Lu Xun sees the wider picture and has a battle plan, like other strategists in the novel he doesn't always share it with others. Which is perhaps unwise but still, he is proved right and it is the only time Lu Xun has those problems.

Jiang Wei on the other hand, his temper and arrogance means he does tend to ignore advice or make mistakes. He gets Xiahou Ba and Zhang Ni/Yi killed due to his personal failings. It happens more then once
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:50 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Bear in mind a lot of the dislike here for Jiang Wei is due to the historical Jiang Wei. I think Yang's comment about the mediocre Jiang was history based. I do think the novel doesn't completely clear/whitewash him of Shu's fall but does make a very intresting flawed man made good by one last act of heroics.

Thank you for pointing that out, Jiang Wei is one of my favourite characters in the novel, but -my bad- i never checked his historical deeds. :oops:
I would propose another match then: Guan Xing vs Zhang Bao
It really is a pity they died young.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby XuSheng » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 pm

Aygor wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:Bear in mind a lot of the dislike here for Jiang Wei is due to the historical Jiang Wei. I think Yang's comment about the mediocre Jiang was history based. I do think the novel doesn't completely clear/whitewash him of Shu's fall but does make a very intresting flawed man made good by one last act of heroics.

Thank you for pointing that out, Jiang Wei is one of my favourite characters in the novel, but -my bad- i never checked his historical deeds. :oops:
I would propose another match then: Guan Xing vs Zhang Bao
It really is a pity they died young.


Novel i supose since Guan Xing was a civil officer in history.

I would choose Guan Xing for a battle and Zhang Bao for Duel, but overall i'd give it to Guan Xing novelwise.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Striga » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:09 am

I'm not so sure of Zhang Bao for duel even. He did manage to die by riding off a cliff (or something like that) in the novel/movie.
Aygor wrote:I beg to politely differ about arrogance: Lu Xun seemed to me, by far, the most arrogant -or silly at least- strategist of the three kingdoms, as i remember many of his liutenants disliking him; he does neither listen to any piece of advice nor explain his view to his men.
Dong Zhou wrote:Lu Xun was right though. He may have struggled to keep order in his first job as CIC, not something he has problems with in his other CIC battles, but the novel makes clear that this is more the fault of his experienced but foolhardy subordinates. Lu Xun sees the wider picture and has a battle plan, like other strategists in the novel he doesn't always share it with others. Which is perhaps unwise but still, he is proved right and it is the only time Lu Xun has those problems.

Remember that the same thing happened to Zhou Yu when he first stepped up to the position of Admiral.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Shen Ai » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:05 am

I would also rate Lu Xun higher. Though attacking is much harder than defence.

Zhou Yu was young when he was named Grand Commander. Lu Xun was at least forty so he didn't have the same excuse for being unpopular at first.

Probably Guan Xing, as he did kill someone at least, Pan Zhang in the novel.
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Re: The vs. Thread

Unread postby Striga » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:23 pm

Shen Ai wrote:I would also rate Lu Xun higher. Though attacking is much harder than defence.

Lu Xun was defending against the powerful Liu Bei himself, while Jiang Wei was attacking a turmoiled Wei, and ended up losing the defence as well.
Shen Ai wrote:Zhou Yu was young when he was named Grand Commander. Lu Xun was at least forty so he didn't have the same excuse for being unpopular at first.

Lu Xun was still newer than many others, and was appointed to be in charge of many older generals who have served Zhou Yu.
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