Guo Jia is overrated.

[Shi Tong]

Heh.

Lets all hear the groan of "not again with the overrated thing Tongy."



Right, so I was reading through SGYY and Guo Jia's SGZ bio here and it seems to me that Guo Jia is overrated on this forum and elsewhere.

Basically, in his SGZ bio, it seems that Guo Jia rides along with everything that Xun Yu suggests and basically says the same thing. He seems to step up a little more towards the end of the defeat of the Yuans.. I think he was a competent adviser and to a degree and strategist.

The reason I think for his overratedness is that in a lot of ways, I think that Guo Jia is respected because Cao Cao revered him so much- when he dies Cao Cao goes on and on about how much he respected him and thought that he was the key to domination of China.

However, I dont think he was as proven as Cao Cao thought he was...

What do you think?

-Tongy.

[Mikhail]

I don't think he is overrated. Granted, I haven't read his SGZ before, but if you are correct with your assessment, then I don't think he would be overrated. It takes a smart strategist to go along with the right plan, regardless whose plan it is. It keeps the army together and it'll get you trusted. I mean, just look at what happened to Yuan Shao's forces when the strategists thought to try to over stretch their power by putting themselves in different camps.

[Dong Zhou]

I elected second option as Cao Cao was right, Jia could have won it for Wei but not because he was super super smart

Jia was insightful about men and was smart enough to know which plan to back if there were two opposing plans. This makes him useful but what made him invaluable was he know how to persuade Cao Cao when others couldn't, he could manipulate his leader. I don't think he is a great man or mind but he certainly was useful to Wei

[Phuc]

IMO, he was average, not overrated. Though he was far from being Wei's best advisor, he did came up with many plots to defeat the Yuans after all.

Jia was insightful about men and was smart enough to know which plan to back if there were two opposing plans. This makes him useful but what made him invaluable was he know how to persuade Cao Cao when others couldn't, he could manipulate his leader. I don't think he is a great man or mind but he certainly was useful to Wei

Fully agreed with Dong here.

[Shi Tong]

Jia was insightful about men and was smart enough to know which plan to back if there were two opposing plans. This makes him useful but what made him invaluable was he know how to persuade Cao Cao when others couldn't, he could manipulate his leader. I don't think he is a great man or mind but he certainly was useful to Wei

Dongy, I agree with most of what you've said here, especially the part where you assess his character- he can judge people well, and he can manipulate his leader.

What's more, I agree that he wasn't the greatest of minds, or of men.

I do feel that people tend to say Guo Jia was the best adviser/ strategist/ tactician ever, and I think that's over the top!

[Phuc]

I do feel that people tend to say Guo Jia was the best adviser/ strategist/ tactician ever, and I think that's over the top!

I think that came from a poem praising Guo Jia after his dead (in the novel). IIRC, it mentioned him as the "ablest in the world". IMO that was ridiculous too.

[Shi Tong]

Indeed. Ablest in the world? I think that's really a bit too much.

I mean.. nobody can really be given that title. I think that Xun Yu was actually better than Guo Jia too. He served longer and IMO gave better advice.

[Dong Zhou]

Yet I think both the novel and history, what Cao Cao does by lamenting backs up the persuader point. In the novel, Cheng Yu and others constantly warn of the dangers so it isn't lack of advice but that nobody could get as close to him as Jia had which is what Cao Cao berates them for. In history, Cao Cao's letter to Xun Yu is about Guo Jia's ability to persuade him to avoid going on the campaign whereas Jia Xu failed to persuade Cao Cao.

[Lonely_dragon]

I pick out the second options for this... I think Guo Jia's quality is able to understand Cao Cao wells and can make him acts the way Guo Jia want so I agreed with Dong Zhuo's opinion on this... And I think that Cao Cao laments on his death because Guo Jia is the one who understands him perfectly...

[Mikhail]

I pick out the second options for this... I think Guo Jia's quality is able to understand Cao Cao wells and can make him acts the way Guo Jia want so I agreed with Dong Zhuo's opinion on this... And I think that Cao Cao laments on his death because Guo Jia is the one who understands him perfectly...

Like him or not, but that is a pretty impressive quality to have. Cao Cao was an incredibly smart and crafty man, and I would imagine that it would take someone at the very least, that is as crafty and intelligent as Cao Cao to be able to manipulate him like that.