Had Sima Yi stormed into the Empty Fort...

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Unread postby the glorious sun jian » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:23 pm

the glorious sun jian wrote:
Sun Gongli wrote:It did happen, except that it was actually performed by Wen Pin against Sun Quan, not by Zhuge Liang against Sima Yi.


I think you meant the empty city because you have said that zhuge uesed it against Sima .... anyway can you tell me the story Sun Gongli??


Well I got it >>>Wei Lue: Sun Quan came with several tens of thousands of troops. At the time, there was a large amount of rain and the city walls were weakened. The common people were leisurely ploughing in the fields and there was no-one repairing. When Wen Pin heard of Sun Quan’s arrival, he did not know what to do. He thought of a plan of concealment and make it seem there was noone there, thus raising suspicions. So he gave orders to the people of the city to hide from view while Wen Pin himself lied down in his own residence with no intention of getting up. As predicted, Sun Quan became suspicious and said to his subordinates, “The north considers this person as a loyal vassal and has sent him to this prefecture. Now I have come but he has not acted. If he has no secret plan, then he certainly must have outside support.” Sun Quan dared not attack but withdrew..............

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Unread postby dwonline » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:04 pm

I think that's the main thing thats special about the event - Zhuge Liang risked it all!

His whole life, whether he knew he was the reason Shu was surviving or not.

Of course, Sima Yi would have killed him had he not been afraid, but I think that's why Zhuge believed in himself.

As it says, Zhuge never took risks - never!

What could Sima Yi do?
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Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:03 am

dwonline Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:04 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that's the main thing thats special about the event - Zhuge Liang risked it all!

His whole life, whether he knew he was the reason Shu was surviving or not.

Of course, Sima Yi would have killed him had he not been afraid, but I think that's why Zhuge believed in himself.

As it says, Zhuge never took risks - never!

What could Sima Yi do?


Hmm... if I were Sima Yi I would consider sending some units into the city to scout and find out if Zhuge is really employing a ruse... While me and my main unit stays outside in readiness... :lol:
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Unread postby xiaoxiannu » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:04 am

Sima Yi don't want to make a decision which is contain any risk. He is too coward. And he know, that Zhuge Liang never made a mistake. That's the point that Zhuge Liang used when he make the empty fort strategy. :D
ZL know that SY never risk his life to stormed into "his trap". It's all about mind-minded game. 8-)
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Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:35 am

xiaoxiannu
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject:
Sima Yi don't want to make a decision which is contain any risk. He is too coward. And he know, that Zhuge Liang never made a mistake. That's the point that Zhuge Liang used when he make the empty fort strategy. Very Happy
ZL know that SY never risk his life to stormed into "his trap". It's all about mind-minded game. Cool


Yeah that's the point Sima Yi had taken into great considerations... Thus he decided to retreat... Hmm... and perhaps he knew Zhuge Liang's too well that he thought that Zhuge would never made a mistake... he forgot one point though... Zhuge is a human and he is too prone to mistakes....
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:33 am

Jie Ting wasn't a mistake? :wink:
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Unread postby xiaoxiannu » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:27 am

Dong Zhou wrote:Jie Ting wasn't a mistake? :wink:

Its exceptional case...but I dunno what event come first ,jie ting or empty fort... :?
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:29 pm

Jie Ting came first, it was in reaction to the Wei attack that Zhuge Liang was forced to use the empty city ploy
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Unread postby Lord Chuff » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:21 pm

Jie Ting is tricky... If Ma Su had taken Zhuge Liang's advice, it wouldn't have been lost, so it comes more down to whether Zhuge Liang's mistake in appointing Ma Su was really his fault. Ma Su had seemed a capable tactician previously (such as in the campaign agains the Mans), but then again Zhuge Liang had Liu Bei's warning about Ma Su to consider. I personally believe that going by the deeds and character of Ma Su displayed in the novel (I don't know about history), Zhuge Liang made an unforeseeable mistake, but a mistake nevertheless.

As for the 'empty city' ruse, I think it wasn't so much a mistake as the only possibly outcome. He took a big risk... and it paid off. But the results would have been disastrous if it hadn't.
Last edited by Lord Chuff on Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Little_Phoenix » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:42 am

Yup that's ZL mistake. He knew that Ma Su is clever but not experience in real battle. Why ZL send him? and why he send Wang Ping too? i think ZL take a great risk. if we see, Wang Ping (an experience General) and Ma Su (an adviser) looks like a perfect combination...but the reality tell different. Ma Su don't hear Wang Ping's advise (which is ZL's advise). I think ZL hope that two work together, to share knowledge. So actually he want to train Ma Su and Wang Ping too....but the result is loss.....if he forgive Ma Su, the army will be shaking (the rule of punishment must be obey)
it's mistake to send a unexperience officer to fight a great strategist like Sima Yi.
okay! that's it......i think it's way out the topic...hehehehehe

My opinion still same, ZL will flee by undercover...hehehehe but his civil officers some maybe dead and surrender.
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