The Followers of Shu

[Stefanos]

Shu, as we all know, was portrayed as a great, honorable, noble, and powerful Kingdom. Shu, in reality, was far from such a title. The officers of Liu Bei were made to look like godly figures, immortal and superior. Such officers consist of Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, Huang Zhong, Zhuge Liang, Jiang Wei, Wei Yan, Ma Dai, ect ect ect. Some of the officers were wrongly described and some people feel almost offended by these assumptions. I want to know what you think about the followers of Shu.

Me? I think that the officers of Shu were not [i]godly[\i], but I dont think that they were as terrible as Anti-Shuists think they are. All of the officers had their faults, and some of these faults led to their untimely downfall. Such people were as Guan Yu, who's arrogance and dislike of Wu led to his execution, and Zhang Fei, who's irritability led to his assassination. Other officers like Zhuge Liang and Jiang Wei were made to look like [i]*psychics*[\i] and could predict the move of anyone anywhere anytime. I think Zhuge Liang was an excellent civil official, a genius at political affairs but not really a great military genius.

Ive only described a few of the many officers of Shu. What do you think?

[Dennis]

I agree, some dudes were good, most of them overrated greatly... but one I think greatly underrated.

I have more respect for Zhang Fei historically than in SGYY, because he was used as the scape goat for all of Liu Bei's errors early on.

Guan Yu, Zhao Yun, , Zhuge Liang and Huang Zhong seem to me, to be slightly overrated, still generals I respect (even if Zhao Yun is nothing but a body guard, I still respect him) They all pulled their weight and are not reasons I dislike Shu, frankly, I don't hate Shu, but I do not like...

Ma Chao, Liu Bei, and Jiang Wei. Jiang Wei and Liu Bei were not good at what they were supposed to be, Liu Bei made a good straw mat seller, but not a good king, and Jiang Wei accomplished next to nothing as a commander, and could have done much more as an advisor as opposed to a leader. They were both not cut out for what they were made out to be in SGYY, so although their personalities may be ok, I don't like them for what they are,

and Ma Chao is as gay as a hormone driven village person.

[Jeffro]

Hmm, I don't really have a big preference, but I guess if I had to name the kingdom that has the most officers I like, itd be shu. I think a big part is not necessarily overexaggerating shu, but understating the other kingdoms, particularly Wu. Gan Ning and Lu Meng were just as important to history as Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, and its unfortunate that True history is difficult to access by Non-chinese readers.(I thank all of the translators here at KMA, they do a wonderful job)

[Chen Kun]

still u can't underrated what they had achieved
not like Wu,Liu Bei and his followers fought and travelled from north to south of China putting their lives on risk,but they managed to built a kingdom that even Wei had to put a respect on them

[Jimayo]

Zhuge Liang not really a great military genius.

I'd argue that.

Liu Bei made a good straw mat seller, but not a good king

I'd argue that too.

[Stefanos]

I agree, some dudes were good, most of them overrated greatly... but one I think greatly underrated.

I have more respect for Zhang Fei historically than in SGYY, because he was used as the scape goat for all of Liu Bei's errors early on.

Yes, the part where Liu Bei beats the Inspector. Zhang Fei is blamed where Liu Bei was the culprit. Quite sad if you ask me

Guan Yu, Zhao Yun, , Zhuge Liang and Huang Zhong seem to me, to be slightly overrated, still generals I respect (even if Zhao Yun is nothing but a body guard, I still respect him) They all pulled their weight and are not reasons I dislike Shu, frankly, I don't hate Shu, but I do not like...

Ma Chao, Liu Bei, and Jiang Wei. Jiang Wei and Liu Bei were not good at what they were supposed to be, Liu Bei made a good straw mat seller, but not a good king, and Jiang Wei accomplished next to nothing as a commander, and could have done much more as an advisor as opposed to a leader.

There, I disagree. Liu Bei was a great leader. As stated in some other thread, Liu Bei was feared by almost all the great leaders of that time. Ma Chao was a great warrior, but was not cut out to lead troops, as shown at Tong Pass. About Jiang Wei, I agree. He may have been able to advise, but making the final decision was not his specialty.

and Ma Chao is as gay as a hormone driven village person.

I take that offensively. Ma Chao is awesome SGYY wise but in SGZ he acts incredibly foolish.

[Han Xin]

still u can't underrated what they had achieved
not like Wu,Liu Bei and his followers fought and travelled from north to south of China putting their lives on risk,but they managed to built a kingdom that even Wei had to put a respect on them

Liu Bei and his followers start from nothing, fighting from north to south? Liu Bei got more opportunity than any other warlord during that time, too bad he and his generals were useless to hold on to them.

Wu not starting out figting? Yeah, suddently the Jade emperor created a state called Wu in the southeast and allowed the Sun to govern it. And don't tell me that Sun Quan didn't do anything. Sun Quan greatly expand the territories of his brother, and as far as I know, Sun Quan was the only guy during RT era that screwed (~out smart) Cao Cao, Cao Pi, and Liu Bei and got away with it. Talking about respect, I had no great respect for the kingdom of Shu at all, its founder was a man of great hypocrisy, and most of their generals and officers were average.

Shu, as we all know, was portrayed as a great, honorable, noble, and powerful Kingdom. Shu, in reality, was far from such a title. The officers of Liu Bei were made to look like godly figures, immortal and superior. Such officers consist of Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, Huang Zhong, Zhuge Liang, Jiang Wei, Wei Yan, Ma Dai, ect ect ect. Some of the officers were wrongly described and some people feel almost offended by these assumptions. I want to know what you think about the followers of Shu.

I agree, a lot of Shu officers were portrayed differently from historical perspective. Zhang Fei although historically recorded as a hot head to his soldiers, but not a brainless idiot as in SGYY. Guan Yu although strong historically, he was never a man of righteousness and honour. Ma Chao was just a barbarian. Huang Zhong involved in enough battle to suggest that he was one of Liu Bei better general, except for been described as an irritated old man everytime the word "old" was mention in SGYY, Huang Zhong didn't get a rought deal. Zhuge Liang as you said was more of an administrator and not a military genius (~don't try and use some book from a Tang's dynasty fortune teller by the name of Li Jing to convince me). Jiang Wei was the best spy Wei send to Shu to screw up the kingdom. Wei Yan was great historically, but turn into a traitor under the pen of LGZ. Ma Dai sux really bad, I don't know why LGZ wanted to portray him so greatly for, he was only ever mention twice.

And I almost forget, Zhao Yun SUX bad....

[Jimayo]

Zhuge Liang as you said was more of an administrator and not a military genius (~don't try and use some book from a Tang's dynasty fortune teller by the name of Li Jing to convince me).

I won't. I also won't say he was a genius or god, but if you really want I'll explain why I thought he was good, but could never win as a leader in shu.

Zhao Yun SUX bad....

Explain to me how he "sucked". I've read his bio and well I'd agree he was overrated, there was nothing in it that suggested he "sucked".

[Chen Kun]

I didn't say that Wu didn't fight for their kingdom,but if we compare the enemy they fought,it is like comparing eggs and stones

[Ieyasu Xundari]

No offense Han Xin, but that's just your view of it.

The farther you go back into history the more your own personal view judges your opinion.

I'm a Shuist and you're an Anti-Shuist. Our personalities are different, therefore, we interpret it differently.

If everyone here hates the fact that the novel is a little different than the real history, than blame Luo Guanzhong!