The "What If" Thread

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Unread postby barbarosso » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:36 pm

Guan Zhi Sun of Guan Yu wrote:[If Zhang Fei didnt stop the Million man army at Chang Ban bridge then I think Cao Cao would have captured Liu Bei but would have released Liu Bei for his reputation. if you would have killed Liu Bei then many rebellions would have came in to perspective.


Thi si probalby corrrect i never though of it like that , caos train of though would run sounding along tyhe lines of ".....but would iwill it be right to take the man's life and avoid countless deaths or kill him, but i repect lui bei and since he is acting for the people, would his death cause unrest and make wei unpopular? decision, decisions,...."
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:47 pm

barbarosso wrote:
Guan Zhi Sun of Guan Yu wrote:[If Zhang Fei didnt stop the Million man army at Chang Ban bridge then I think Cao Cao would have captured Liu Bei but would have released Liu Bei for his reputation. if you would have killed Liu Bei then many rebellions would have came in to perspective.


Thi si probalby corrrect i never though of it like that , caos train of though would run sounding along tyhe lines of ".....but would iwill it be right to take the man's life and avoid countless deaths or kill him, but i repect lui bei and since he is acting for the people, would his death cause unrest and make wei unpopular? decision, decisions,...."


Nothing in Heaven or Earth would make Cao Cao spare Liu Bei once he had captured him. And if his death did make him unpopular: a) Who's going to tell the most powerful man in China that he was wrong to kill Liu Bei and b) Cao Cao could always say he had purged a rebellious traitor to the Emperor.
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Unread postby n06guy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:34 am

Im pretty sure some half wit minister would boldy walk up to Cao Cao and tell him he did something wrong. It's not like guys hadnt done that before, Mi Heng is a great example. Although he didnt tell him he murdered someone, but he was willing to talk back to Cao Cao.

And I'm unsure that the rebellious traitor statement would actually work, since (if im correct) many people believed in Liu Bei's cause as truth.
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Unread postby Master Fu Xi » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:30 pm

Actually if Zhang Fei never stopped the million man army at Chang Ban bridge then Cao Cao would conquer China because there would be no alliance with Liu Bei and Sun Quan so that means no Chi Bi and that means that Sun's force would have been swallowed up along with Liu Zhang, Zhang Lu, Ma Teng, and Han Sui.
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Unread postby Rommel » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:45 pm

Master Fu Xi wrote:Actually if Zhang Fei never stopped the million man army at Chang Ban bridge then Cao Cao would conquer China because there would be no alliance with Liu Bei and Sun Quan so that means no Chi Bi and that means that Sun's force would have been swallowed up along with Liu Zhang, Zhang Lu, Ma Teng, and Han Sui.


Did Zhang Fei face million men army? I thought that he only faced five thousands of light calvary men on the bridge. Without heavy equipments, (and I doubt that they had bows and arrows or they would shoot Zhang Fei with rain of arrows like the movie of "Hero") Cao Cao's men were concerned about an ambush while Zhang Fei's subordinates clouded the situation with dusts at the other bank. If you were Cao Cao would you risk your 5,000 lightly equipped men to attack ZhangFei? Remember the bridge was narrow and it only allowed few men getting on bridge to fight against Zhang Fei at one time.
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Unread postby Master Fu Xi » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:53 pm

It doesn't matter how much troops Cao Cao had; it matters wether or not Zhang Fei stopped them from crossing. And remember when Cao Cao retreated he told the whole army to retreat so he really did stop a "million man army".
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:12 pm

Posted in a duplicate thread:

Fou Lu wrote:I know relatively little. I haven't finished the novel, I've read most of Sima Guang's history of the period.
From what i understand, in 219, Sun Quan betrayed Liu Bei, and invaded Jing and Guan Yu, and killed him. I want to know what people think would have happened if Guan Yu had continued to campaign there. Would Liu Bei have made serious gains, because it appeared to me that Cao Cao was worried about Guan Yu
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Unread postby Zhuge Zhao » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:00 pm

What if Lord Kongming and Pang Shiyuan were switch and Lord Kongming had been slayed in Luoxian instead of Pang Shiyuan?

What are your thoughts?
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Unread postby n06guy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:52 pm

Fou Lu wrote:
I know relatively little. I haven't finished the novel, I've read most of Sima Guang's history of the period.
From what i understand, in 219, Sun Quan betrayed Liu Bei, and invaded Jing and Guan Yu, and killed him. I want to know what people think would have happened if Guan Yu had continued to campaign there. Would Liu Bei have made serious gains, because it appeared to me that Cao Cao was worried about Guan Yu


If your name can scare a man out of his wits, enough to make him consider moving the capital, you can make gains in a lot of ways.

Kongming dying before Pang Tong? It would be hard to say what could occur. Kongming always seemed to be the more patient one of the two, so I'd guess a great many more things could occur in many things.
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Unread postby Da_Chicago_Jigalo » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:51 am

Zhuge Kongmingx wrote:Ok, try "what if Sun Ce and Zhou Yu lived longer?:
"What if Liu Shan was lost at Changban?"
"What if Sima Yi and Deng Ai died of ilness at a young age?"
"What if Zhou Tai did not save Sun Quan at Xuan?"
"What if Yuan Shu surrendered to Lu Bu and Lu Bu opposed Cao Cao with all of Yuan Shu's troops?"
"What if Dian Wei lived at Wan?"
"What if Cao Ang lived at Wan?"
"What if Guan Yu lived at Fan, and Lu Meng never took Jingzhou?"
"What if when Zhong Hui rebelled with Jiang Wei, they were not killed and attacked Wei/Jin with Wu?"
"What if Ma Su won at Jieting?"
"What if all 5 tigers lived longer?"
"What if Kongming did not perish at Wuzhang?"
"What if Wu won at He Fei?"


Alright sorry if I am a bit late into the conversation, but I wil give my answer to Zhuge Kongming's questions.

1. If Sun Ce and Zhou Yu would have lived longer, then I think it is very possible that both of them together would have conquered the Jing province, finaly defeating Liu Biao.
2. If Liu Shan was lost at Change Ban then Liu Bei might have realized that Liu Feng was the only good surviving heir and not have exacuted him. If he did execute him, a weak, slightly stronger son of Liu Bei would have taken the throne.
3. If they died at a younger age then maybey Zhuge Liang would have conquered the Liang province, and after his death Jiang Wei would move Shu armies into the Central Plains. It is possible that fearing Shu's might, Wu declared war on Shu.
4. Sun Quan would have died, and the Kingdom of Wu would have probaly fallen much faster. A weaker ruler of the Sun line would have taken control and ruined the nation.
5. Lu Bu would have lost in the end. He knew how to kill someone, but not when a battle. It would have taken alot longer though, maybey long enough for Yuan Shao to take advantage of the situation and conquer both Cao Cao and Lu Bu.
6. He would have probaly just helped Cao Cao win more battles up to probaly the point of the Northern Campaigns.
7. Cao Cao would have had Cao Ang as a heir, and he would have probaly took over Wei and do no better than Cao Pi or Cao Rui did.
8. To tell u the truth, I honestly do not know.
9. One way or another they would have been crushed. Neither of them were so good as to the point of having the ability to conquer China with a fallen nation.
10. Zhuge Liang might have gotten the better of Sima Yi and indeed unified the Liang province.
11. The power of Shu would have increased dramatically. They would have probaly made some major campaigns in both Wu and Wei.
12. He would have kept trying to beat Sima Yi until he finaly went insane and gave it up. Shortly after he would divorce Yue Ying, marry a foreign Roman Prostitute, and die in a small NanMan village. :lol: j/k
13. Wu would have gained a foothold into the central plains and may have took much of southern Wei if both Shu and Wu centered all their strength on destroying Wei.

Here is one for u.
:arrow: What if a really bad ass, strong Han Emperor came to the throne and decided he wasn't gonna take anymore crap from feudal warlords?
Yo.....
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