Lord_Zhuge000 wrote:There are infinite possibilities! Personally I would be interested in how long the Liu-Sun alliance would have lasted.
LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:Personally i think that when Lu Meng told Sun Quan that Xu would be too hard to hold and that they should go after Jing instead was more because he already had his mind set on taking Jing and the fact that they had the opportunity for an easier gain.
Lord_Zhuge000 wrote:LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:Personally i think that when Lu Meng told Sun Quan that Xu would be too hard to hold and that they should go after Jing instead was more because he already had his mind set on taking Jing and the fact that they had the opportunity for an easier gain.
Yes, Quan and Meng were so angry with Kongming for stealing Jing, they lost sight of the bigger picture for a while.
But if Wu takes Xu, Cao Cao would have to either divide his army or return to the capital. Guan Yu would have siezed Fan, and Cao Cao would have nowhere below the river and the threat from Xu. Would have been very hard to get out of that one!
It is funny thing about Jing because if you look at page 8 of Liu Bei's SGZ it says in the notes that in Chen Shou's orignal text there is nothing stated about a lending agreement and that the lending agreement was made up by Wu historians to make Lu Su look better.
Yeah so if Wu was less greedy then Wu and Shu-Han could have defeated Cao Cao. While this necesarily might not have happened it was probably the best chance for Wei to be taken down.
Lu Kang wrote:It is funny thing about Jing because if you look at page 8 of Liu Bei's SGZ it says in the notes that in Chen Shou's orignal text there is nothing stated about a lending agreement and that the lending agreement was made up by Wu historians to make Lu Su look better.
Yeah so if Wu was less greedy then Wu and Shu-Han could have defeated Cao Cao. While this necesarily might not have happened it was probably the best chance for Wei to be taken down.
That is just the opinion of the Translator and saying that the lack of a lending term in Shu bios means it didn't happen is a terrible arguement. There is no line that said Jiangling ever switched hands so did Wu still have Jiang Ling? Of course not, just because a Shu bio doesn't mention an event doesn't mean it didn't happen. The fact that there is no infomation going either way is quite suspect. If Jiang Ling was just given to them why not just say it? Why cover up for something? Furthermore there are pro-shu histories that record a lending agreement. A lack of infomation doesn't fly because they don't mention a single thing about it at all.
I don't think that an attack on Xu would be fruitful. Like Lu Meng said, it would be very hard to hold. That's not even looking at the fact that Wu did not have the necesary manpower to maintain a longterm defence against Wei. On top of that Shu had tricked Sun Quan about Yizhou and betrayed Liu Zhang. I don't think Sun Quan could sleep safely with Liu Bei as his "Ally". Jing was Wu's only real hope for survival.
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