Chen Deng

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Chen Deng

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:59 am

I was thinking to myself earlier about Chen Deng. I really don't know much about the man outside the novel. This man served Tao Qian, Liu Bei, Lu Bu and then finally Cao Cao. Can anyone please tell me about him. I am pretty sure that he was a talented officer but i would like to know the real history of this man.
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Unread postby Xiahou Ji » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:17 am

Personally, I like him a lot too. I agree he was very talented and he could see further than most other people at the time. Tao Qian, Liu Bei and Lu Bu claimed (self-claimed or appointed) to be the governor of Xu Province, it seemed like he was serving them. I think saying he was serving Han would be more appropiate. Because later, he actually became governor himself (that's why I think he's really smart). I read his bio in SGZ a couple of times and I don't really fully understand it (it was very short too). From what it says, he was liked by the people where he served at the governor. From what I understand. he was a very ambitious man. He was always thinking of bringing some troops across the Yangzi River to see what he could do with them. Too bad he died at a very young age, at 39. His cause of death was food poisoning (ate too much sashimi....).
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Unread postby Liu He » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:04 pm

Come, come! You make it sound far too clinical... "food poisoning" lacks the character of "multitudes of writhing worms in the intestines"...! (This is the description, or close to it anyhow, given in the Moss Roberts version when he is talking about Hua Tuo treating Chen Deng...)...

:)
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:30 pm

Xiahou Ji wrote:Personally, I like him a lot too. I agree he was very talented and he could see further than most other people at the time. Tao Qian, Liu Bei and Lu Bu claimed (self-claimed or appointed) to be the governor of Xu Province, it seemed like he was serving them. I think saying he was serving Han would be more appropiate. Because later, he actually became governor himself (that's why I think he's really smart). I read his bio in SGZ a couple of times and I don't really fully understand it (it was very short too). From what it says, he was liked by the people where he served at the governor. From what I understand. he was a very ambitious man. He was always thinking of bringing some troops across the Yangzi River to see what he could do with them. Too bad he died at a very young age, at 39. His cause of death was food poisoning (ate too much sashimi....).


I was wondering if you could provide a link to his bio. I would really like to read it.
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Unread postby Xiahou Ji » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:01 pm

I actually have the book of SGZ, and I think Kongming.net have the best English translated SGZ on the net, but they don't have Chen Deng's Bio up there yet. But they do have "Hua Tuo (Yuanhua)"'s bio, and it has the cause of death of Chen Deng. You can find Hua Tuo's complete bio here:
http://kongming.net/novel/sgz/huatuo.php

And I copied the part related to Chen Deng's below:
"The Grand Administrator of Guang Ling, Chen Deng had gotten sick where he felt discomfort in his chest, his face flushed red and he had no appetite. Examing his pulse, Hua Tuo said, “Your honour, inside your stomach lies many parasites. If not rid of, then you’ll develop an ulcer. This was caused by eating raw or uncooked meats.” Immediately a medicinal broth was prepared. It was taken in two parts, half first then the remaining half. Chen Deng then vomited three pints or so of parasites with red heads and still wriggling. Half of their bodies were like minced fish meat. All pain suffered by the patient disappeared afterwards. Hua Tuo then warned him: “You will suffer a relapse of this illness in three years. If you have a good doctor nearby you, then you can be saved.” Indeed after the three years, Chen Deng did suffer from a relapse. At the time Hua Tuo wasn’t in the area; nor was there any good doctors in the area so Chen Deng died."

And for his death, I am still being skeptical about the parasites were actually put there by Hua Tuo to show people how good he really is...

However, I have to say "multitudes of writhing worms in the intestines" is a pretty spectacular way to die.... :D
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:44 pm

I don't think that Chen Deng has his own biography in SGZ, though the main text had a bit tacked on the end of Lu Bu's biography. Pei Songzhi added an excerpt from the Xian xian xing zhuang (I think) that detailed Chen Deng's career. Great Deer translated a bit of that in relation to Chen Deng fighting Sun Ce: http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=8285&start=20 . If I get through this schoolwork, I'll probably translate the rest. I had started a little discussion on the character of Chen Deng in the novel here.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Tue May 04, 2004 3:22 am

Fortunately I kept a copy of the translation in another document... how did I know that the forum's going to hiccup and lose my long posts :roll: ?

Rough translation of the Xian Xian Xing Zhuang account quoted by Pei Songzhi at the end of Lu Bu's SGZ bio:
-----------
Deng was loyal, upright, and honesty, deep in character and possessing great ideas, and since his youth he aspired to uphold the realm and save the people. He read widely and had a great literary talent; there were no books or essays that he did not study. When he was 25 of age, he was recommended as a Filial and Incorrput, and appointed to be Chief of Dongyang commune. There he took care of the elderly and raised the orphans, loving the people with all his heart. At that time, famine struck and the people were starving, and so Provincial Governer Tao Qian recommend Chen Deng to be Colonel of Agricultural Affairs. In that position, Chen Deng evaluated the agricultural lands, and carried out irrigation programs. Benefited by this, the land yielded a great amount of crops.

He was then sent as an envoy to Xu. The Great Progenitor, Cao Cao, made Deng Grand Administrator of Guangling, and ordered him to recruit people to scheme upon Lu Bu. When Deng got to Guangling, he judged the people fairly and clearly, and his authority was manifested through the land. The pirate Xue Zhou, who had over ten thousand housholds in his band, surrendered to him. Before a year was over, his accomplishments were complete, and the commers feared and loved him. Deng said, "We are ready now."

The Great Progenitor arrived at Xiapi, and Chen Deng led the troops from the commandery as the van. At that time, Deng's younger brothers were all in Xiapi city, and Lu Bu held three of the brothers hostage and sought a cease-fire. Chen Deng would not bow to the demand, and pressed on with the siege. One Zhang Hong, a police officer under Lu Bu, feared the consequences and took the three brothers out to Deng during the night.

Once Lu Bu was killed, Chen Deng was promoted to General who Subdues Waves (Fubo Jiangjun ?), and became well-loved by the people in the Yangtze and Huai river area. Thus he began to have aspirations of annexing the Southlands. Sun Ce sent an army to attack Deng at Kuangqi city. When the enemy first arrived, their armour were so numerous that they covered the river. Deng's subordinates were all of the opinion that since the enemy were ten times as numerous as the troops of the commandery, resistance would be difficult and thus they should avoid confrontation and leave the city open to them; a navy could not stay long on land, and thus they must retreat on their own soon after. Deng said impassionedly, "I have been commanded by the state to keep safe this land. Ma Wenyuan of yore, who held this position before me, pacified the myriad Yue tribes in the south and destroyed the various Di tribes in the north. Even if I should be unable to annihilate the outlaws, how can I run away from them? I will, rather, risk my life to repay my country. We who uphold righteousness to put order to chaos follow the ways of Heaven, and our defeat of them is certain." At that, he ordered the gates be closed and defence positiones be held, and put up an appearance of being too fearful to engage in battle. He forbade his men to make noise, and the city was so quiet that it seemed like it was empty. Chen Deng went up to the walls to observe the situation, and he saw that an attack is warranted. Thus he sent forth an order for the troops to get their weaponry ready at night, and at daybreak, he opened the southern gate and led the army towards the enemy camp, with infantry and cavalry raiding their rear. The enemy was thrown in confusion, and by the time they managed to gather in formation, they were unable to return to their boats. Chen Deng struck the wardrums and led his men forward. The enemy suffered a great defeat, and fled without their vessels. Chen Deng took advantage of the situation and pursued them, beheading tens of thousands of enemy soldiers.

The enemy was infuriated at the losses, and sent an even greater army to fight Chen Deng. Chen Deng, knowing that he would be no match for them, sent Chen Qiao of the Department of Merit to request reinforcements from Cao Cao. Chen Deng himself secretly went to the encampment some 10 li outside the city, and had the soldiers there take many bundles of firewood and lay them in a grid ten paces from each other, two bundles at one place. He then ordered them to light the torches at night. At the same time, he had his men in the city cheer as if a great reinforcement unit was arriving. When the enemy saw the fire, they dispersed in terror, and Chen Deng led his men in pursuit and took ten thousand heads.

For that, Chen Deng was promoted to be Grand Administrator of Dongcheng. The officers and commoners of Guangling so admired his benevolence that they all left the commandery to follow Deng; carrying the old and weak on their backs they pursued him. Chen Deng sent his word around asking them to go back, "When I was in your commandery, I attracted the attacks of the Wu bandits. Fortunately we overcame them that time. Why should you feel sad for me not being there?"

Because of this, Sun Quan was able to hold all the lands beyond the Yangtze. Every time Cao Cao came up to the River, he would look at it and sigh, regretting that he did not adopt Chen Yuanlong's plan, and allowed that evil ringleader [literally "Giant Pig" in Chinese :shock:] grow claws and fangs. Emperor Wen [Cao Pi], wishing to acknowledge Chen Deng's accomplishments, made his son Chen Su an imperial courtier.
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Tue May 04, 2004 3:29 am

That was great. Thank you lady Wu
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Tue May 04, 2004 7:04 am

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:That was great. Thank you lady Wu

My pleasure. :D
There is a little bit in the main text of Chen Shou's writing, too, with Liu Bei and Liu Biao and Xu Si discussing the character of Chen Deng. I find it to be kind of irrelevent but I will post it here once I figure out what this one sentence in it means...
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sun May 09, 2004 5:42 am

Lady Wu wrote:
LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:That was great. Thank you lady Wu

My pleasure. :D
There is a little bit in the main text of Chen Shou's writing, too, with Liu Bei and Liu Biao and Xu Si discussing the character of Chen Deng. I find it to be kind of irrelevent but I will post it here once I figure out what this one sentence in it means...


Thank you any and all information is welcome. I have to study up cause i want to cross swords with you eventually but i am not quite sure i am at a high enough level for that yet.
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