Fictional Characters in SGYY

[Tonto_Simfish]

It's been said repeatedly that the only fictional characters in SGYY were Zhou Cang and Guan Suo (made up from LGZ's imagination). But could there be other fictional characters in the book, like those who have very short tenures? For example, what about those generals who faced Hua Xiong or Lu Bu, and were slaughtered by them in duels? (Pan Feng of Han Fu and Wu Anguo of Kong Rong, frex). Were those generals ever recordeed in history? After all, duels in history were very rare, and I doubt that they actually dueled at Huo Luo Gate.

How about Mi Heng? Or He Man? Or He Yi?

[taishici99]

Wu Anguo was probably real but he probably died in the battle not agianst Lu Bu. He Man is real. He was a Yellow Turban or Scarf and was slain by Cao Hong.

[Han Liang]

Diao Chan was also fictional. Probably there are plenty more.

[White Horse General]

Are you certain Diao Chan was fictional?

I'm reading the notes in the back of vlume 1 of the four volume set translated by Moss Roberts and on page 582 note number 11 It states: " According to the Shuji ( cited in SGZ, p. 939 ), after the conquest of Xuzhou, Lord Guan wanted to take Lu Bu's concubine Diaochan for his wife, but Cao Cao kept her for himself upon hearing of her extraordinary beauty - to Lord Guan's chagrin. "

I can only assume SGZ stands for Sanguo Zhi, the " historical " account of this time period and it apprently states Diaochan in there as an actual person.

[Jimayo]

Are you certain Diao Chan was fictional?

I'm reading the notes in the back of vlume 1 of the four volume set translated by Moss Roberts and on page 582 note number 11 It states: " According to the Shuji ( cited in SGZ, p. 939 ), after the conquest of Xuzhou, Lord Guan wanted to take Lu Bu's concubine Diaochan for his wife, but Cao Cao kept her for himself upon hearing of her extraordinary beauty - to Lord Guan's chagrin. "

I can only assume SGZ stands for Sanguo Zhi, the " historical " account of this time period and it apprently states Diaochan in there as an actual person.

Diaochan is like a serving girl. The actual character Diao Chan, is probably based upon this serving girl, but they are not one and the same(the Diao Chan in the novel was a significant figure who played a major role and has a personality to match, but the historical one is only briefly mentioned).

[Kong Wen]

"According to the Shuji (cited in SGZ, p. 939)" [...] I can only assume SGZ stands for Sanguo Zhi, the " historical " account of this time period and it apprently states Diaochan in there as an actual person.

Yep, SGZ is the historical account of the time period, but it also includes Pei Songzhi's annotations. Pei's annotations quote tons of other sources from around the same time as SGZ, but a lot of them are folktales, legends, propaganda, etc... That particular story is from Shuji, which is not a part of the SGZ--it's one of the sources Pei quoted, which is why it appears in and is cited in SGZ.

[Jimayo]

"According to the Shuji (cited in SGZ, p. 939)" [...] I can only assume SGZ stands for Sanguo Zhi, the " historical " account of this time period and it apprently states Diaochan in there as an actual person.

Yep, SGZ is the historical account of the time period, but it also includes Pei Songzhi's annotations. Pei's annotations quote tons of other sources from around the same time as SGZ, but a lot of them are folktales, legends, propaganda, etc... That particular story is from Shuji, which is not a part of the SGZ--it's one of the sources Pei quoted, which is why it appears in and is cited in SGZ.

Yeah, but diaochan is mentioned earlier(in SGZ) as one of the causes of tension between Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu(but of course, she's only briefly mentioned, in passing).

[Kong Wen]

And I don't believe she's mentioned as an actual person/character... moreso as a concept, almost. Just some anonymous serving girl. In fact, the passage(s) concerning diaochan might not even mean that there was a specific girl that caused trouble between Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo, but that women in general were a tension between them.

[White Horse General]

yea in the earlier passages I believe it mentions tension between a Dong Zhou and Lu Bu on account of a woman, but they didn't give a name.

[Lady Wu]

Mi Heng, He Man, and He Yi are real.

The first guy to die on the battlefield, Cheng Yuanzhi, is fictional. A bunch of the guys who Guan Yu killed through the 5 passes are made up. Basically, whenever you see "His lieutenant, X, rode up to meet the challenge but was dismounted by one blow," chances are that X is a fictional character.