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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:48 am
by Lady Wu
James wrote:I decided on a few fictional changes to my character and answered the social questions from that perspective, carefully watching for the duplicate questions as I worked through the quiz. In the end I was able to give them a personality type they were excited about, and the manager was thrilled to tell me I would fit right in. (I wondered what would happen as they said the test would be able to tell if I was lying). Something happened, though, and they offended a person in my family, so lost all interest in the position. In retrospect I imagine I would have been pretty unhappy there.

To thine own self be true. ;)

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:59 am
by James
Thank you so much for the clarification and confirmation! :D

Lady Wu wrote:Understanding the type dynamics, in your case, James, may help interpret the borderline S/N score:

ISTJ:
Dominant: Introverted Sensing
Auxiliary: Extraverted Thinking
Tertiary: Feeling
Inferior: Extraverted Intuition

INTJ:
Dominant: Introverted Intuition
Auxiliary: Extraverted Thinking
Tertiary: Feeling
Inferior: Extraverted Sensing

Being borderline S/N doesn't mean you contradict yourself, once you take the type dynamics into account. Having Extraverted Intuition as the Inferior Function of ISTJ doesn't preclude the possibility of the use of Introverted Intuition elsewhere (in the background, or not as a primary function), and vice versa for INTJ.

I'm starting to see why they have a certification for testing. I know I would need to read (and absorb) one of those official books and take the official test before I could really place myself properly, but there's still no harm in interpreting the likely flawed results I've come up with.

So back to interpretation:
Auxiliary and Tertiary functions: these are the general interaction types a person might fall back on when their primary function fails them (or if they don't have enough energy or awareness to make use of it properly)? In that case, might they be recognized as the primary means of interacting with others, in order of strength (this based on the literal definition of tertiary). And the inferior function is quite a difference -- it is what a personality type reverts to when they lack the awareness or energy necessary to communicate properly (e.g. drunk, overcome by emotion -- as you categorized above)?

It is odd interpreting 'introverted' and 'extroverted' as they relate to other characteristics such as intuition or thinking. Perhaps more reading on the site would resolve this confusion, or perhaps such combinations warrant definitions in the official book (or by professionals on a site)? I will search for it, but what medium did you use to discern the functions for my listed personality types?

Tertiary
'Feeling' seems easy enough to interpret. I fall back on my feelings, or a sense of things, when I utilize this function? If that is accurate, I can't help but to laugh. This is indeed my final resort when faced with a problem. When I'm at a loss interacting with a person I 'go with my gut' or interact based on the emotions I perceive from them. When lost and my other approaches fail, I rely on what direction 'feels' right, based on past experience in the area (and oddly enough, this rarely fails me).

Auxiliary
'Extraverted Thinking', the other constant: this would be the equivalent of noodling through a problem by making use of the knowledge available through people around me (I imagine weighed against my own)? When I am unable to resolve a dilemma of myself I turn to people (or groups) I have identified as 'experts' (relative or otherwise) on a matter, and work with them to find a solution. If my reasoning and interpretation thus far is accurate, that makes sense too.

Dominant
That leaves the dominant and inferior functions of each personality type. The 'introverted' and 'extroverted' nature of each is easy to understand. I know I am an introvert. I always have been. I cannot place my dominant problem-solving method with 'intuition' or 'sensing', though, as qualities of both form my approach to matters. While some elements of 'sensing' are more appropriate, if I see potential value in a new approach and have time to explore it, or if I see flaws with an established approach, I will pursue a new avenue without hesitation. If I have a doubt, and the established method is viable, I keep a foot on it in case I need to backtrack. I don't tend to overlook new possibilities, though, and I don't tend to stick to the old ways if they aren't working.

My placement in the middle makes sense in this regard, but I'm not sure where I would wind up fitting into the model.

Inferior
Yeah, whatever it is, it makes sense that it would be extroverted. I'm not quite sure what to make of it beyond this, though, and this is probably an area where people who know me might have some valuable thoughts. I know when I am out of my setting (such as at a party) I become quiet and tend to interact with people only when they interact with me, and even then, I don't converse extensively. When I meet new people I am usually quite quiet, though I pay close attention to them while I figure them out. I gradually warm up to them (it usually takes at least a visit or two) and sometimes they think of me as cold or distant, or might even believe that I do not like them.

But this has more to do with problem solving, yes? If I have no useful input to solve a problem I defer to others (passively if I am not in a position of leadership, actively by seeking certain people out with greater energy if I am in such a position). I make my position as well known as possible (especially by admitting my lack of knowledge when viable) and I try to establish a position based on the limited knowledge I gather from people around me who are playing an active role.

Or am I simply giving an example of the worst-case application of a more conscious function? Is this better associated with a position in which you have poor or no mental control of your actions? Or when you just don't have the energy necessary to participate anymore? Edit: After thinking about points you've already made, I imagine this is the case.

Now you've gone and made me curious, Lady Wu.

You are free to run away if you've come this far and want your free-time back. :lol:

Lady Wu wrote:To thine own self be true. ;)

Yeah, agreed. :)

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:18 am
by Lady Wu
I wish I remember the title of the book (I photocopied only the section that pertains to my type). I'm going to fire off an email to the good folks at the career workshop place and see if they know which book I'm talking about. Sorry to keep you hanging there, James. :P

As for "Introverted" vs. "Extraverted", it's important to distinguish Myers-Briggs' use of those terms from how we normally use them. The terms don't mean how chirpy you are at a cocktail party. Rather, they refer to the sphere from which you relate your energy. For example, Introverted types draw their energy from inside, while Extraverted types draw their energy from the people around them. That's why I was saying to Adam that having a social life doesn't necessarily mean that you're Extraverted. If you still need that time to yourself to recharge quietly, you still count as Introverted. An Extraverted person, when completely exhausted after work, might call up his friends and hit the club as a way to recharge, whereas an Introverted person would prefer to spend some time with the family or just a few close friends, or by himself.

When applied to the other functions, "Introverted" and "Extraverted" refer to where you use that energy. "Introverted" literally means "directed inward", and "extraverted" literally means "directed outward". I like the descriptions on the MBTI site, though I believe they aren't the whole picture. I think there are two layers involved: the kind of information that energy processes, and the expression or action taken on that energy.

Seen this way, Extraverted Feeling would refer to Feeling with respect to other people and the outside world (kind of information processed), and overt expression of the Feeling (action taken). Extraverted Sensing would refer to processing sensory input in the immediate world around you (kind of information processed), and acting on that sensory information or doing concrete, physical things (action taken). Extraverted Intuition would mean having intuitions or creative ideas about the external world (kind of information processed), and sharing that intuition with others or creating something to share that information (action taken).

Extraverted Intuition is my Auxiliary Function and I'm getting more and more aware of it, so I can tell you what it's like. I have this weird ability of determining how functional/dysfunctional an organization is and ways it can improve, just moments after I visit the organization or meeting people from it. I can't give you a list of concrete facts or sensory information that leads me to my conclusion, but the intuition is strong and most often correct. I'm not shy about sharing my "findings" or acting on them, though it makes other people not like me ("You aren't here long enough to know that"), and it sometimes makes the Thinking part of me scream (since the conclusion isn't arrived at via logical analysis). I often question it, since I'm not an "extravert" (with a lower-case "e"; the common interpretation of "extravert") and I personally have difficulty relating to other people ("Extraverted Feeling" as Inferior Function). But it's proven to be very useful. And I've been using it all my life, albeit subconsciously, so now I'm trying to develop it.

It's also important to note, as you said, the precise meanings of the words used in the 8 functions. "Feeling" doesn't necessarily refer to everything that comes from the gut (a large part of that could be iNtuition instead), but rather to "heart" stuff. It's not about emotions, either. Rather, it has to do with whether you make a decision based on the hard facts, or whether it's based on how it'd affect yourself or others personally. If you tend to "go with your gut", it could reflect the use of iNtuition rather than Feeling.

Each person uses all the functions. It's just a matter of preference and comfort level of using a particular function. If your Tertiary function is "Feeling" it doesn't mean you're a heartless beast, but rather that you prefer to make decisions based on logical facts and analyses, and you're most skilled at doing stuff that way. While you still have access to the "lower" functions, they're not as well developed, so it'd take more effort to "get it right". For example, while "Extraverted Feeling" is my Inferior Function, it's not that I can't care for other people. It's just that I feel super awkward and self-conscious in doing so.

I'll be pushing my understanding too far if I write anymore now. :lol: Ok, going to email people about the title of the book.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:47 pm
by Shi Tong
I'm glad to see this thread being so well enjoyed!

I did the test again, just to see, and lo:

Extraverted Intuitive Feeling Judging
Strength of the preferences %
67 25 25 56


Actually almost exactly the same as before, except MORE extrovert, which I know anyway, I'm very extroverted, so there we have it.

It's interesting the idea of the borderlines too, it's something that I wasn't aware of until I'd looked at it closer. However, I feel like I'm not really borderline with many of my scores, in fact I'm stronger ENFJ than my last test, so that's interesting! :lol:

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:21 pm
by Lexus Fiend
Interesting that the only other ENFP's here are females; SunXia and Kristina.

Hmm...

Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:15 pm
by SunXia
Oh, there's other people like me?? Cool!!
I really have no idea what it all means really although I am a very outgoing person, is that anything to do with it??

Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:22 pm
by Shi Tong
:shock: Just read the whole of the thread (all 8 pages) and nobody else is an ENFJ! :shock:

I'm unique (as usual), well, unless someone suddenly says they're an ENFJ, at which point I'm not unique any more and just one of the masses.

like a Borg or something.

:lol:

There are a lot of I's and a few INFJ's, but no ENFJ's!

Cool. :D

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:40 am
by Lulu
I took this test again. My numbers varied a bit, but I'm still an INFJ. It got me thinking though, I've had trouble getting along with one of my daughters. It's not as bad now that she's grown up and living on her own, but every once in a while there is still contention. So I thought, I wonder what personality she is. I got her to take the test and we read each others information. I think we both gained some insight :D

We've agreed to let the other know when we feel our personality being stepped on :wink:

Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:12 pm
by Lexus Fiend
SunXia wrote:Oh, there's other people like me?? Cool!!
I really have no idea what it all means really although I am a very outgoing person, is that anything to do with it??


Well, it's just yourself, me and Kristina that have the "same" personalites so far. I think being outgoing and sometimes outspoken does have something to do with it, as I, for better or worse, have both of those qualities. I also can be the quiet type at times, peeping out the situation and surroundings before I let myself get 'normal' :lol:

Odd that I share the same traits with the two blondes here! j/k

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:26 am
by James
Oh, and thank you, Lady Wu, for the additional information! I did read it, and I've been reading more about it here and there since. It is starting to make much more sense to me now. :)