Are you a Vegetarian?

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Are you a vegetarian?

Yes
8
16%
No
39
76%
Kinda
4
8%
 
Total votes : 51

Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby tofu » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:23 pm

I am not a vegetarian, but I try to avoid eating meat whenever possible, because I love animals, not because of health resons :P .
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:24 pm

I'm not a vegetarian, but I had considered it for awhile. I find the moral arguments from an environmental standpoint somewhat compelling, but if you're going to be looking at environmental impact in what you consume, where it comes from has more to do with it than what it actually is. If you live in New England and you're eating grain-fed beef that's been imported from Brazil, you're making a far bigger consumer dent in terms of raw energy than if you're eating beef from old grass-fed dairy cows from Massachusetts or Vermont. Likewise with local versus imported chicken.

There are some of the arguments from an animal-rights perspective that I find plausible and others that I find laughable. The ones that I find plausible are utilitarian, and have to do with whether animals are made to suffer vastly for the end benefit of the consumer - as in the treatment of chickens in large-scale commercial chicken coops or industrial slaughterhouses. The reason I find these arguments more plausible is that we know that animals (at least, those with central nervous systems) are capable of suffering massive disutility and of feeling physical pain. However, this does not get one to vegetarianism - the local beef, for example, largely comes from local dairy farms; the cows either expire naturally or are humanely put down.

The argument that I find utterly ridiculous is the PETA argument that treats animals as though they are entitled to the same rights as people, because the same types who argue for full animal rights do not hold them morally responsible for the same actions as we hold people. For example, they think it's morally permissible for other animals to be carnivores, but morally reprehensible for humans, which creates an amazingly dissonant double standard.

So, yeah, I'm a meat-eater, but a principled one. :D
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:30 pm

I'm not a vegetarian, and probably never will be. If I was to take such a stance it would be based on a practical matter (health).



WeiWenDi wrote:The ones that I find plausible are utilitarian, and have to do with whether animals are made to suffer vastly for the end benefit of the consumer - as in the treatment of chickens in large-scale commercial chicken coops or industrial slaughterhouses. The reason I find these arguments more plausible is that we know that animals (at least, those with central nervous systems) are capable of suffering massive disutility and of feeling physical pain. However, this does not get one to vegetarianism - the local beef, for example, largely comes from local dairy farms; the cows either expire naturally or are humanely put down.

The argument that I find utterly ridiculous is the PETA argument that treats animals as though they are entitled to the same rights as people


While I'm sure it probably deserves a thread of it's own, I don't see the difference in the two. Or at least, I don't see how one matters without the other. So they feel pain, without the latter argument so what? Or is it merely a concern over the degree of said pain? If so I'd agree with your next statement


morally permissible for other animals to be carnivores, but morally reprehensible for humans, which creates an amazingly dissonant double standard.


I'm fairly sure no thought is given to the kind of death given to prey.
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:28 pm

Shikanosuke wrote:While I'm sure it probably deserves a thread of it's own, I don't see the difference in the two. Or at least, I don't see how one matters without the other. So they feel pain, without the latter argument so what? Or is it merely a concern over the degree of said pain? If so I'd agree with your next statement


Well, here's the thing. I think that domestic animals are capable of feeling pain and disutility, but that most are incapable of reflexive reasoning and communicating in explicit lexical content. An out-and-out utilitarian might say that consuming meat would be okay if it provided human consumers with enough utility to override the disutility experienced by the animals in being killed, and even then the disutility to the animals ought to be kept to a minimum (killing ought to be humane, dignified and painless) - and in this case, I would agree with the utilitarian position, but for different reasons (which I won't get into now).

Where I start disagreeing with the PETA position is precisely where they start inferring that animals have 'rights' beyond this that should be respected as though they were human beings. As a deontologist, I find this line of reasoning almost insulting, because rights exist only for members of species capable of reflexive reasoning and communicating in explicit lexical content. The very justification for the idea of rights (to begin with) is that human beings are not automatons, that they are capable of positing themselves in relation to the world around them, of constituting life narratives and projects, of reflecting upon those narratives and projects and of making choices - and that these capacities endow human beings with free will and with intrinsic moral worth, but also with the potential to take responsibility for the choices that they make. Most animals do not have the potential to take such responsibility; as such, the language of 'rights' cannot apply to them.

The way I see it is that the only consideration toward animals that we should have is that not to allow them to suffer needlessly.
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby Lady Wu » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:43 pm

This really belongs to the PETA thread, but I just want to say my brain broke down that day when I saw PETA's "sea-kitten" campaign, in which they tried to "rename" fish as "sea-kittens" to cute-ify them and make people more sympathetic towards fish.

What are kittens fed with? Tuna! What do kittens do for fun? Mutilate and kill rodents and bugs!

If PETA really want to treat fish right, they should eliminate kittens. :roll:

---

On topic--I found myself eating a lot more vegetables since I started a worm compost bin in my apartment. In order to make sure my worms have enough scraps to eat, I need to make sure I eat more fresh vegetables and less meat and processed foods. But I haven't gone completely vegetarian--I love a good roast beef!

However, I would be happier as an omnivore if I can come to terms with the actual slaughtering of the animal. I get queasy watching a chicken being plucked (which is silly, since I grew up in a place where you go to the market to buy live chickens and have them kill and pluck them right there in front of you).
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby Ranbir » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:12 am

Meat free monday!

Linda's food is the best.
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby Shritzu » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:24 pm

I enjoy the hunt....and the feast that follows,And I think i'm good on the grill........I have I dispicable step-aunt that tricked a cousin(she is a vegetarian) into believing eggs are not meat,she believed vegetarians were un healthy, however at my expense I let her know....I see nothing wrong with eating what you kill or even what's in front of you.be it vegatables or meat.
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby SunXia » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:13 am

Ranbir wrote:Meat free monday!
Hey!!! I actually stuck to that, unintentionally of course then I had some poultry not so long ago (after midnight)!!

I'm not for the very fact, I can't stand most veggies but fruit I love!!
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby DynastyWarriors6 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:52 am

I could never give up eating meat theirs just too many good things about eating meat. Ribs, Hamburgers, BQ, Hotdogs, Steak, Bacon, Sausage, Ham, man it just keeps getting better and better. I also just love KFC Chicken theirs just too many good things about meat that I could never give it up. Also I always hate how Vegetarians claim I'm eating a living creature,'hey it's dead and fried on the plate I'm doing him a favor now by enjoying him.' Anyways Vegetables and Fruits are alive to, they have cells that we consume that are alive your eating their souls.
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Re: Are you a Vegetarian?

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:39 am

DynastyWarriors6 wrote:Also I always hate how Vegetarians claim I'm eating a living creature,'hey it's dead and fried on the plate I'm doing him a favor now by enjoying him.'


I don't think they say that, nor do I think you can do a dead creature a favor.


Anyways Vegetables and Fruits are alive to, they have cells that we consume that are alive your eating their souls.


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope this is humor.
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