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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Liu Yuante » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:24 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:So Easter comes and so does Doctor Who, the last season of Capaldi and Moffat, the first for the new companion

My sister enjoyed the opening episode, for me it was one of those it was fine but I wasn't quite engaged. I liked the new companion but there elements that feel too similar to Clara, the big bad was a nice idea and I liked it but felt it had diminishing returns within episode, I really liked how they handled the "new companion sees Tardis" which they managed to keep fresh in an amusing way.


I have found Bill to be infinitely more interesting than Clara. Clara for me was very faceless, almost personality-free. Never engaged with her at all (save her very first appearance, when she was playing an actual character and not The Impossible Girl).

I am definitely sad to be seeing Capaldi go - I think he's been the best of the bunch, post-2005, though you never know how much is the actor's fault and how much the writer's. Moffat is more of a mixed-bag, but I've still enjoyed his era more than Davies'. Personally, I've found this season to be the best in a long time - possibly since the show came back, honestly. The only real weak link was The Lie of the Land. Nothing that happened in that episode made any kind of sense, things just kind of happened because the plot required it.

Moffat clearly seems to be making this his "affectionate good-bye" to the show - we're getting all kinds of nods to the past in every episode, and the season as a whole seems to be running a deliberate parallel with Hartnell's era. And seeing Ice Warriors again is always a good thing, you can never have too many Ice Warriors. Pleased as punch to see the original-look Cybermen again, way cooler and scarier than most of their later versions, and they beat the stuffing out of the sterile robots of the revived-era Cybes. Looks like the finale will relegate Spare Parts (Big Finish audio set on Mondas) to non-canon status, though, unfortunately. It's a shame when such a brilliant story gets tramped on, but that's life when your show has been around for 50+ years across multiple media formats.

Last thought - definitely feel the new incarnation will be female. They're teasing it up so hard at this point, it would likely incite riots (or the Twitter equivalent) if they didn't. Pretty sure the Kris Marshall rumors are a red herring.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:40 am

I liked Clara but she was no Pond and I know she was highly divisive but when I put "the best Oswald's were the pre companion Oswald's", that is not a ringing endorsement. Bill is a huge breath of fresh air in the show, been the highlight of the season with a new attitude and angels to things, very likeable figure.

I have found the season to be 7/10 for me, few duds, nothing quite exceptional this season, II have noticed the usual Moffat hate mob are being quiet. Capadly has done a very good job as doctor but I think he has been illserved by Moffat, not sure I can think of enough memorable moments to make him a great doctor but that seems due to scripts and coming in at a time at the end phase of a writer.

And seeing Ice Warriors again is always a good thing, you can never have too many Ice Warriors. Pleased as punch to see the original-look Cybermen again, way cooler and scarier than most of their later versions, and they beat the stuffing out of the sterile robots of the revived-era Cybes.


Agreed.

Last thought - definitely feel the new incarnation will be female. They're teasing it up so hard at this point, it would likely incite riots (or the Twitter equivalent) if they didn't. Pretty sure the Kris Marshall rumors are a red herring.


It has not been subtle has it? I think there will be outrage either way, if not a female then being led up the garden path outrage, if female then traditionalists will be outraged
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:23 pm

I enjoyed the finale
-The Missy/Master thing was a lot of fun, took me a few moments to adjust from how I remembered Simms master to what was on screen but after that, thought it provided a lot of humour but also an emotional heart between three time lords. I assume the Master, in another form, will return at some point but Missy seems done. Was a good ending for her and probably Missy's best episode, she started with a bang as a character but her flair tended to be a little too over the top, this episode curbed into a more serious, straight figure and benefited for it

-Nardole was fun, been a likeable third wheel which I wasn't expecting when he was announced. Perhaps having the restraint of a family show has helped Lucas but his Nardole had a fun relationship in the group, won't say I'll miss him ala Rory but he had only one season.

-The Bill storyline was one where I appreciated what Moffat was trying to do but it didn't quite work for me. I wasn't bored by it but I wasn't engaged, should have had much more impact. They have clearly left it open for Bill to return, difficult for new showrunner who may want to cast a new companion to go with his doctor and who he can create cleanly but Bill was a blast. One season means she may struggle to be remembered if this is her last but she provided energy in a struggling start, she had humour, she looked at things in a new angle which allowed them to provide different answers to the age old questions. I had really worried in a sneak preview BBC did as she was really really annoyed but she was a breath of fresh air and I will miss her.

-I liked the pre-ending as it were, Capaldi lying on battlefield, Bill meeting the water lady but when it moved into Tardis, it felt clunky and the two ladies stopping clicking. However since Capaldi still has his goodbye (hopefully so does Bill), I would say I am excited for the two Doctor's at Christmas. I slightly worry it could be too "Doctor Who" involved for the Christmas audience but as someone who watches it weekly and saw that first doctor film the BBC did, looking forward to it


Moffat's final season overall? Early episodes sometimes felt like neat ideas but lacking a little substance and run out of steam, Capaldi was being outshone a bit by Bill who was carrying it but Knock Knock indicated a turnaround. A solid season with reliable, good episodes and only a few stand out (Knock Knock, first Monk episode, finale) though fond of Empress of Mars. I'm happy with that, was a good way to bow out for the writer. Nardole was a fun third companion and Bill was awesome

Moffat overall? He was never going to live up to the hype when he came in as 1) Russell T Davies was being slagged off to an unfair degree, 2) Moffat was being treated like the Messiah. He wasn't then and nor is he the destroyer of everything good and holy as some portrayed him as in recent years. We had reason to be excited when Moffat took over with the show needing a new face, Coupling was an enjoyable show, the man had done Blink one of the great episodes. Or Girl in the Fireplace! I found in the early years of Moffat, one could have really really awesome episode and then a very bad one, in later years he got better at finding more consistency but lost some of the specials. He did struggle sometimes with the "right, I need the doctor to win at this point" and those action scenes could feel rushed (Sherlock has same issue) and I think all writers over time will struggle with not getting overcomplicated with season storyarc (though he deserves flak for one or two "Christmas episode should be casual fans"). Another error was the Impossible Girl, I liked Clara but something is wrong when I preferred the pre-Clara Clara's, it earnt a lot of anger and frustration with a feeling she had got too powerful. I also think people feel Capaldi never got the writer he deserved which can be the issue near a writers end. Yet I think overall Moffat will be remembered for the Weeping Angels, for the many many strong episodes either by him or under him, for Matt Smith's Doctor, for the 50th anniversary, for Bill, for the great match that was the Pond's, for Bill.

Thankfully his successor doesn't have either "oh gods nooooo" or "awesome" from fanbase so hopefully gets a fair wind. Don't think I have seen much of Chris Chibnall's work outside the enjoyable if a bit erratic Torchwood and his Doctor Who work which did decently enough without being great.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:25 am

New Doctor Who to be revealed after males Wimbledon final
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:50 am

So the New Doctor

Jodie Whittaker. I have seen her in a few films (St Trinan's, Attack the Block) and episode of Black Mirror, tends to do very well in side or supporting roles, was superb in Venus where she was a main character. This seems a good move for her, a chance to shine as the leading figure in a big show, gives her career a push and secures a place in history. I have enjoyed work when I have seen her.

This has been controversial as one would expect. For me, a timelord regenerates into a different figure so why not a woman? I'm not worried that this move could be badly screwed up by bad writing or BBC getting obsessed with pointing out she is a woman. I am concerned at Chibnall's general quality of episodes is "fine" at best so that isn't helping
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:35 pm

I think I've given up on the franchise now. Personally I don't like changing the gender of the doctor. I feel it sends out the wrong messages. I'd much rather they created a new sci-fi series with an original strong, female character. I personally feel that this implies that the only way to make a good female character is by changing the gender of a male one which is clearly not true. I hope the rest of you continue to enjoy the show though. :)
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby SunXia » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:58 am

I have tried Doctor who and failed a lot at it, couldn't finish the first reboot series, I'm not a fan of that actor. But correct me if I am wrong, when Matt Smith regenerated didn't he check his parts briefly to see if he was still male??

Doctor Who isn't human it's silly to limit the character based on that. In the same way the character changed in 2000s many times over this is just another change.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:42 am

I think I've given up on the franchise now.


Just a case of the casting didn't excite and you realize your just not into the show anymore?

I'd much rather they created a new sci-fi series with an original strong, female character.


Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a major strike for equality. There are other factors behind it (they have been hinting a female Doctor to point where risked backlash if they didn't, they need to boost ratings, it makes great PR when BBC may be under fire for gender pay) but if they wanted equality, a promise of half the production team, half the writing team and any of us being able to imagine a female showrunner might be better....

I think this move is a reflection on a wider thing we are seeing in entertainment. The entertainment industries (plays, comics, TV are the ones I have seen this from, not so much films) realize a lot of their star roles are written for white men. So they alter roles, we have had Lenny Henry in Shakespeare, Maxine Peake as hamlet, an all black Macbeth, we have had female Ironman, Thor's (and a frog apparently), Wolverine, a black Spiderman, a black Captain America, TV show Elementary has gender changed a few characters (and quite well actually)

Why do they do that rather then just create new play/comics/TV shows? Well I imagine there are non white males who would love to play some of the iconic roles there are out there and not quire to wait more then their own lifetime to have iconic roles for them. Getting a product out there requires it to be commissioned in first place then for people to hear of it and buy/watch it. Maxine Peak as Hamlet? That will get commissioned, that will get TV attention (BBC I think showed it), newspaper attention and public attention. A female Watson? Ditto. A random new player or a random detective show? Not so much. It can happen, I believe Squirrel Girl is new and popular (though yet to get a film based on her) but it will be a lot of failed shows and takes decades to be iconic.

To match up the amount of iconic men roles, every new comic, TV show and so on would have to not have a white male lead for decades and would need to wait for a generation for enough icons to emerge. This isn't something entertainment industries would commit to, some would backlash at the idea of doing this while those waiting to see iconic roles expanded for them are not going to go "well I just have to wait decades to get our turn? I'll happily wait." When you are casting Shakespeare or a new adaptation of something, why not just be free to a female or black lead? When comic book characters die or retire, why not consider a non-white male successor? When you have a character who changes body every now and again, why must it always be a white male?

I personally feel that this implies that the only way to make a good female character is by changing the gender of a male one which is clearly not true.


I must have missed your complaint that Capaldi's hiring implied that the only way to make a good Scottish character is by changing a young English man into an old Scottish one :wink: I really haven't seen anyone at BBC imply that and don't see how the casting by itself would imply that

Sun Fin wrote:I hope the rest of you continue to enjoy the show though. :)


Thanks

SunXia wrote:I have tried Doctor who and failed a lot at it, couldn't finish the first reboot series, I'm not a fan of that actor. But correct me if I am wrong, when Matt Smith regenerated didn't he check his parts briefly to see if he was still male??

Doctor Who isn't human it's silly to limit the character based on that. In the same way the character changed in 2000s many times over this is just another change.


Yep. Also ginger if I recall. Since then, Moffat has shown a time lord changing gender, reintegrated the Master into a woman "Missy" and made pretty clear Doctor Who can change gender in ways that were sometimes annoying unsubtle (surprised he didn't have a song sung about it). Which was also something considered near the end of the old sow apparently.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:24 am

Dong Zhou wrote:Just a case of the casting didn't excite and you realize your just not into the show anymore?


I don't want to get in to an argument about it. I understand that Time Lords changing gender has now got a precedent but only within the last few seasons. Before that I felt we had distinct male and female Time Lords. I do understand this is a preference thing, like I still don't like 'unrealistic weapons' in DW. But to answer your question I've been gradually losing interest throughout the Capaldi era and this was the straw that broke the camels back.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby laojim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:41 am

Somehow I thought that the new doctor was going to be a lady when they brought in Capaldi, but I don't recall why I thought that. There was a grizzled old man needing a shave who was wandering about until Capaldi came on the stage but he apparently didn't get the contract
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