Doctor Who

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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby SunXia » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:11 am

I must have missed your complaint that Capaldi's hiring implied that the only way to make a good Scottish character is by changing a young English man into an old Scottish one :wink: I really haven't seen anyone at BBC imply that and don't see how the casting by itself would imply that


I can see where he is coming from on some aspect of this. Not all but some. Now the Time Lords I disagree with as they are not Human thus our gender roles don't apply to them. But I have seen this in other shows like in LGBT issues where a character suddenly becomes Homosexual or Bisexual or some other sexuality that they were far from originally depicted.

One of these is a universe I love, the Avatar universe and how randomly at the end of the show, Korra and Asami are in a relationship. For both characters this was really out of the blue. It may have something to do with how it aired online in the ending seasons and so they felt comfortable taking that step, if only hinted at, rather than having it air and having thousands of complaints.

I am for depicting of lots of more diversity in media as much as anyone. I'm not going to bash all men and scream about a Patriarchy but I think we can all see throughout the last one hundred years the various way white male characters are pushed in a certain way while the black man is relegate to the "brother" culture or homosexual man is relegated to the "camp" culture or the asain american is the fun geek and the woman is the eye candy or fetale or whatever. Sure the diversity is there but its as a token format or little light is shown.

Its actually one of the reasons I enjoy watching SHIELD so much, the diversity in that show. May and Daisy are both asian in descent but its not talked about but they are staples of a cast that has changed off and on over the years. You also have two British people there, three this past season so its not just another "Americans save the world" trope. Yo-Yo is hispanic and shes awesome and her partnership with Mac is entertaining to watch. And its fine, these characters weren't built as tropes or tokens, they are fully fleshed people from the initial introduction to now rather than as Fin says, changed to female for sake of it.

On the Korra thing, I would have preferred that if she and Asami were lesbians then just make them lesbians. Yet for multiple seasons the two of them had a tenuous friendship that suffered because they were both in love or infatuated with a dude. Then, nope we are lesbians. I know there's a period of confusion usually about sexuality but that is not confusion they are full blown into this dude and trying to coax him away from the other. The word Love was used a lot too. So when it was revealed after the last episode that those two walking away hand in hand meant romance it felt taped on or pinned on to make a statement rather than just have her a lesbian. YEs sure they are limited by it being on Nickelodeon so wouldn't have been able to portray much but it was a change that felt force to me so I think that's what he is implying.


So yeah, when changes feel too forced it feels like pandering. I don't mind if its done early in a series as creators and writers find their feet with a character but random later changes can feel forced. I don't mind this change because it was established when the doctor first regenerated that he was a completely new type of doctor and each doctor since has a different personality to their predecessor on a Human level but still being the Doctor in a fundamental level. We see this in how the behave and how they approach problems and how they dress even so it doesn't feel forced to me.

Somehow I thought that the new doctor was going to be a lady when they brought in Capaldi, but I don't recall why I thought that.

I think that the whole regeneration with Mat Smith thing wondering if he was female and/or ginger started widening the door for a female portrayal so was natural for people to wonder and discuss the possibility. So you were probably seeing the rumour mills.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:18 pm

Sun Fin wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:Just a case of the casting didn't excite and you realize your just not into the show anymore?


I don't want to get in to an argument about it. I understand that Time Lords changing gender has now got a precedent but only within the last few seasons. Before that I felt we had distinct male and female Time Lords. I do understand this is a preference thing, like I still don't like 'unrealistic weapons' in DW. But to answer your question I've been gradually losing interest throughout the Capaldi era and this was the straw that broke the camels back.



Fair enough

As far as I'm aware, the general assumption in ye olde series was time lord gender was set though whether that was ever offical canon I'm not sure. There was a plan vetoed by Grade near end time of going for a female doctor, by a co-creator of Doctor Who, but that comes across as "ratings have fallen apart, we need something big" so probably a good thing that didn't happen. I don't recall Russell Davies going down that route so yeah, pretty much Moffat. I suspect whoever was writer would have ended up going down similar route at some point though

laojim wrote:Somehow I thought that the new doctor was going to be a lady when they brought in Capaldi, but I don't recall why I thought that. There was a grizzled old man needing a shave who was wandering about until Capaldi came on the stage but he apparently didn't get the contract


Rumours last time were heavily about females getting the job if that helps

I can see where he is coming from on some aspect of this. Not all but some. Now the Time Lords I disagree with as they are not Human thus our gender roles don't apply to them. But I have seen this in other shows like in LGBT issues where a character suddenly becomes Homosexual or Bisexual or some other sexuality that they were far from originally depicted.


Sure, I can understand that. We have all had pandering on our screens and so I do understand the suspicion at ill motive or, when Lucy Liu became Watson, "they will do a romance with Sherlock" (they didn't but I feared it as much as anyone). We have all had "what the...." as a character changes personality in one moment like their sexuality

I think for something long running, there are always going to be the issues of social attitudes changing and how does one adapt to it and how to deal with that attitudes when show started may become outdated. Without betraying the characters or being clumsy. With Dr Who the ability to reintegrate really helps, comic books have sometimes had to retcon massively but have been adjust to adjust characters needing to be more then white males becuase it is seen as acceptable for characters to die/retire and have the mantle picked up by someone else.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:51 am

I wonder how long till we hear about new doctor's pay to try to cover for the massive gender pay gap of BBC stars.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby SunXia » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:28 pm

The pay gap is disgusting. Especially for the amount you see and hear about Claudia Winkleman compared to Chris Evans.
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Re: Doctor Who

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:50 am

That is the least disturbing one sadly though amazing how far down Claudia Winkleman is on the list. It is when male presenters seem to always be better paid then the females, same with the main actor and actress on BBC staff payroll, sports people and any other role one can think of.
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