Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

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Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States

Yes, completely legal to everyone
25
27%
Yes but with restrictions
31
33%
No, not at all
36
39%
None of the above
1
1%
 
Total votes : 93

Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby James » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:39 pm

laojim wrote:Harm others? Neither meth nor acid is commonly linked to waves of violent outbursts. Alcohol is famous for getting people to fight for no good reason. Most of the violence associated with other drugs is a direct product of the illegality of the drug which makes it, among other things, expensive. To raise the money all sorts of crimes are commonly committed. I'd rather support drug habits with taxes than to support it through burglary and so on.

The violence associated with money and power in the drug trade is distinct to the products of a bad trip, however infrequent. Although, certainly, I could believe the money and power causes much more violence. Although I'd never support legalization of a highly destructive drug like crystal meth.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:04 pm

Also probably just a tad premature to make claims on a link with meth and violence. Some studies do link the two and find it more commonly associated with domestic violence than gang or drug trade related. Some studies conclude there are firm dose-related increases in violence for users of meth. Not including psychosis..ya know.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby James » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:26 am

Shikanosuke wrote:Also probably just a tad premature to make claims on a link with meth and violence. Some studies do link the two and find it more commonly associated with domestic violence than gang or drug trade related. Some studies conclude there are firm dose-related increases in violence for users of meth. Not including psychosis..ya know.

It's actually new to me as well. I've read no shortage of bad things associated with meth, but not violence (outside what would have been associated with a chemical addiction). Thanks for those links.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby laojim » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:46 pm

It remains the case that many years of outlawing these drugs has accomplished nothing except the filling of prisons with non violent users and sellers. Even if all the users decided to go for treatment tomorrow there are no effective programs for most of them to get off of the drugs. So, you see, it isn't a matter of how nasty the side effects are; it is a matter of what you intend to do about the drug users. You aren't going to get them off the drugs and you aren't going to stop the supply. The cheapest strategy is to give them the drugs and leave them alone. Some will lead ordinary, if addicted, lives and some will just take the drug unto death. It is, in the long term, a Darwinian solution.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby FoxWithWings » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:52 pm

Shik

Also probably just a tad premature to make claims on a link with meth and violence. Some studies do link the two and find it more commonly associated with domestic violence than gang or drug trade related. Some studies conclude there are firm dose-related increases in violence for users of meth. Not including psychosis..ya know.


That was just a bad example on my part. Meth is really just self-destructing. What I really meant was some of the harsher ones, like bath salts. Ya know, the one that prompted a homeless man to eat someone's face?

Laojim

It remains the case that many years of outlawing these drugs has accomplished nothing except the filling of prisons with non violent users and sellers. Even if all the users decided to go for treatment tomorrow there are no effective programs for most of them to get off of the drugs. So, you see, it isn't a matter of how nasty the side effects are; it is a matter of what you intend to do about the drug users. You aren't going to get them off the drugs and you aren't going to stop the supply. The cheapest strategy is to give them the drugs and leave them alone. Some will lead ordinary, if addicted, lives and some will just take the drug unto death. It is, in the long term, a Darwinian solution.


Addiction can be cured, or at least helped. And the supply can be cut down. You're proposing we just let the death drugs have their way?

The gist of this sounds too ruthless for it to work in modern times.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby James » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:54 pm

laojim wrote:It remains the case that many years of outlawing these drugs has accomplished nothing except the filling of prisons with non violent users and sellers. Even if all the users decided to go for treatment tomorrow there are no effective programs for most of them to get off of the drugs. So, you see, it isn't a matter of how nasty the side effects are; it is a matter of what you intend to do about the drug users. You aren't going to get them off the drugs and you aren't going to stop the supply. The cheapest strategy is to give them the drugs and leave them alone. Some will lead ordinary, if addicted, lives and some will just take the drug unto death. It is, in the long term, a Darwinian solution.

I agree with the problems but don't agree that the proposed solution, while certainly the simplest, is appropriate. In the least because legalizing those drugs continues their role in destroying neighborhoods and communities. And legalizing these drugs may solve forms of violence, but at the same time is it any better to see capitalism rally behind their distribution?

Personally, I'd rather see legal efforts focus more on the truly dangerous drugs and less on the likes of marijuana (such as imprisoning so many non-violent offenders) and much more effort into approaches such as accessible and well-supported rehabilitation programs. Which is not to say I'd love to see a company like Marlboro behind marijuana—I don't. Especially when we still need to study the substance far more thoroughly than we have to date.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:49 am

James wrote:
laojim wrote:It remains the case that many years of outlawing these drugs has accomplished nothing except the filling of prisons with non violent users and sellers. Even if all the users decided to go for treatment tomorrow there are no effective programs for most of them to get off of the drugs. So, you see, it isn't a matter of how nasty the side effects are; it is a matter of what you intend to do about the drug users. You aren't going to get them off the drugs and you aren't going to stop the supply. The cheapest strategy is to give them the drugs and leave them alone. Some will lead ordinary, if addicted, lives and some will just take the drug unto death. It is, in the long term, a Darwinian solution.

I agree with the problems but don't agree that the proposed solution, while certainly the simplest, is appropriate. In the least because legalizing those drugs continues their role in destroying neighborhoods and communities. And legalizing these drugs may solve forms of violence, but at the same time is it any better to see capitalism rally behind their distribution?

Personally, I'd rather see legal efforts focus more on the truly dangerous drugs and less on the likes of marijuana (such as imprisoning so many non-violent offenders) and much more effort into approaches such as accessible and well-supported rehabilitation programs. Which is not to say I'd love to see a company like Marlboro behind marijuana—I don't. Especially when we still need to study the substance far more thoroughly than we have to date.


Actually that's a good point.

How many of these people who are into the full-court press for legalisation would have the same attitude toward it when the industry becomes the domain of Philip Morris et al? This could be an interesting discussion to watch... :devil:
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby laojim » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:12 am

Mind you, I buy marijuana legally in this state. I have a card from the state that I can buy it for medicinal purposes.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:07 pm

laojim wrote:Mind you, I buy marijuana legally in this state. I have a card from the state that I can buy it for medicinal purposes.


Not entirely sure what you're saying here, but that brings to mind another concern. If the national ban on marijuana is lifted, can we have some proactive legislation preventing not just Philip Morris but also Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline and Monsanto from copyrighting THC and other cannabinoids for medicinal use and distribution? I would personally get a kick out of seeing Rite-Aid or Walgreens generic-brand joints being handed out from the Rx counter, but that's just me...
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:12 pm

I guess my opinion is that drugs should be illegal but the emphasis should be on rehab for those people who are addicted not punishment and instead it should be the dealers and smugglers who should face heavy prison time.
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