WeiWenDi wrote:Clearly there are objective 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to sex - not subjective at all. Rape is wrong. Spousal abuse (or any kind of abuse within a sexual relationship) is wrong. Human trafficking is wrong. Sexual use of children is wrong.
Maybe I should have been a bit clear on the consensual side of things as none of those are just sex those are abuse and abuse is always wrong regardless if it is sexual, physical, emotional etc If you are deliberately hurting someone that is wrong.
WeiWenDi wrote:Incest is wrong. Prostitution is wrong.
Well I think this is where we get into a grey area.
Incest usually comes from, in this day and age, abusive families and so in that instance it is inherently wrong of course. I also personally don't know how people can see relation and see sex but cousins are allowed to marry etc. I would argue that yes incest is wrong as it is your brother or mother or father or sister. However, there are people who have been adopted or fostered and fallen in love and had completely healthy children and marriages only to discover they are related. Is it fair to force them to divorce in that case, to deliberately separate a loving home? Doesn't really seem fair does it.
In prostitution there are many forms of it and its not always illegal, although agreed, in many places it is.
Sexual exploitation, human trafficking and forced prostitution are, of course, wrong and is a form of abuse. There are many that are forced into the trade and that is, of course, wrong also.
But there are happy healthy people who are happy to be prostitutes, happy to provide that service that people seek out. As long as it is in a safe environment and nobody is getting hurt then I'm not in the "its wrong" boat there as, while I would never do it, there are countries that regulate it and promote its safety. It is that persons body to do so with as they wish.
WeiWenDi wrote:I would even say (though this is certainly controversial nowadays) that divorce for any other reason than infidelity or abuse is wrong.
That is certainly a matter of opinion and is completely subjective as there are cases where people, no matter how hard they try, are making themselves and their children completely unhappy because the love is gone. And I know it seems impossible but there have been cases of marriages lasting decades and people feeling "I just don't love you anymore" and it happens.
WeiWenDi wrote:It's also clear that 'consent' is not an adequate marker of 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to sex. Prostitution can be considered 'consenting', since taken in an analysis absent all considerations of relative power and social status, it is transactional in an exactly analogous way to the 'consent' model (and many sexual libertarians can and do say so outright).
A lot of prostitution is consenting and a lot of it isn't. When it is forced, as I said, that is very very wrong. However, there are some who enjoy that line of work. We often have sex workers on television arguing for prostitution as it makes them happy. I think, here its legal as long as you are not standing on street corners and brothels and things like that. You are also liable if you pay someone who is being forced into prostitution, for sex. Personally I think this is a building stone that can lead to safer places for people who want to be in this line of work. It don't think it is simple as saying every woman is forced into it and thus it is wrong.
If you are scared of your partner in life then something is very wrong and people are very rarely scared without due reason. If you have been forced into the marriage then that is not consent, that is forced. If you have been abused to the point where emotionally you are unable to say no then that, again, is not consent as it comes from abuse.WeiWenDi wrote:Even some kinds of spousal abuse can be considered 'consenting', particularly if the abused spouse is afraid or too emotionally entangled to leave or deny consent.
As I said communication is key in relationship and honesty so that you can build a healthy relationship. If there is fear due to the actions of one of the party that's not proper consent and its certainly not a healthy relationship.
WeiWenDi wrote:What is absent from all of the above is exactly love, or at least love rightly considered. Sex without love is exploitation. It's exploitation of another person's body, for one's own selfish pleasure or reproductive faculties, no matter what other kind of discussion takes place.
If a person wants to have sex with someone they love an do so, aren't they using that persons body for things they want and desire too??
Each of us have desires, wants and needs and sex without love does not equal exploitation as sex without love is not about "just what I want and not you" as what exploitation is. Exploitation in terms of people is in regards to treating people unfairly in order to get what you want and while that happens, in many relationships and marriages, it doesn't always happen in the absence of love. If you have entered into a relationship openly honest about what you want and the other person is openly honest about what they want and if they are both compatible then there shouldn't be a problem. If you are lying to a person to get what you want then yes that is exploiting them but that is not always the case.
To use that argument, then having sex with a loved one can be exploitation too as you desire sex with someone you love and initiating it means you are doing something you want and desire. We all take what we want from the world a lot of the time, lust and desire can be every bit as compatible in an equal relationship as love. If you didn't want to be with someone you loved then you wouldn't be with them.
Shozuhn wrote:Sometimes it would feel really, really good to punch my boss right in the middle of her face. But I don't, because I'm not a wild animal.
I would like to think you also don't because that is assault and assaulting others deliberately is wrong.
Shozuhn wrote:I mean, if the risk of disease wasn't bad enough
This is a reason that safe sex should be promoted and not a reason to condemn others for having sex. There is always risks of disease in life this is why I would promote healthy lifestyles and doctor check ups even if you are not having sex.
Shozuhn wrote:to potentially bring a child into a situation where there isn't a loving family environment within which to raise the child is just wrong.
Again, a reason to promote safe sex. In fact, refusing to talk to teenagers about sex and telling them to deny themselves without giving a proper reason other than "sex without love is wrong" leads to rebellion, confusion and mistakes. Then that further leads to guilt and sometimes, teen pregnancy.
I have seen many children brought into the world through love and then their parents start hating each other and divide the family and the children often get stuck in the middle. My own niece and nephew were brought into the world in a loving relationship but their father hung himself and much of his side of the family have passed away but those children are still loved. Just because parents fall out of love or things does not mean a child does not benefit from experiencing love.
Shozuhn wrote:Or maybe I'm just old fashion... but I wanna be loved.
hat is entirely your prerogative, if it is something you want then go for it. But others should not be forced to be held to that if it is not something they want in life. You want to love someone and want to feel loved in turn and you will selfishly seek that out from a relationship. I'm not saying that it is wrong to be selfish as its ok to do in life what is right for you.
Its alright to sit back and say that its selfish and exploitative to want something that has nothing to do with love. However one can easily turn it around and say that getting what you want for any relationship can be selfish and exploitative including love as its clearly something you want in life and thus its selfish. Then someone can say "no its an equal partnership" but then why does a relationship not based on love but still based on honest understanding of one another have to be considered unequal?
There is no exact right way to be in an equal, healthy and honest relationship. As long as both parties are honest, willing and treated with respect then it doesn't have to be related to love or marriage.