Gay and Lesbian Marriage

Discuss events that have an impact on you and the world today. A home for honest, serious, and open discussion.

Unread postby Travis » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:48 am

James wrote:Is it fair for a faith to tell their members to be someone they aren’t? If there were a single divine being over everything, I would suspect he would be much more understanding than this.


"You shalt not lie with a man as you lie with a woman. It is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22 Old Testament

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be decieved. Neither Fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nore thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1st Corinthians 6:9-6:10

That's the Bibles opinion of it, thus it is mine.
"Be on your Guard, Stand Firm in the Faith, Be Men of Courage, Be Strong, Do everything in Love" - Master Lee's School Motto-

Formerly Schwarz Bruder/Taishi Ci
User avatar
Travis
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 am
Location: Master Lee's TKD School (LaFayette, Ga USA)

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:00 am

Taishi Ci wrote:That's the Bibles opinion of it, thus it is mine.

I see. Still, don’t forget that you are not part of a pool entity, when we stop thinking for ourselves we are no longer worth of being called human. It is okay for this to be your own personal view, but you must not ever follow something else blindly.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17958
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Unread postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:01 am

Sam Da Man wrote:What do you mean they don't flaunt it? What are all those gay parades about? Those 100,000 gays marching in washington d.c..

I don't want them around because I want my family to survive and the people's families I know to survive also. What if I have a son or daughter that is gay? Right then my family line dies. My family line that has survived for thousands and thousands of years gets sweeped away in an instant. How would you feel if everything you were and everything your family has done since the begining of time was about to end? Wouldn't you fight and die to protect it?


As if those 100,000 gays represents a million precisely. You're stereotyping because of a gay parade that many gay activists stand against and a march in which many gays participated not to flaunt their sexuality, but to stand for equal rights under the law (as they see it). I don't exactly call that flaunting a life style. Most homosexuals live their lives as quietly and "normally" as any heterosexual. Their drag parties are a joke upon the stereotypes stamped on them and society. I'm not denying there are many homosexuals who do flaunt their sexuality, but I assure you they are not the majority.


How would you feel if you had an only child...a daughter, and she told you she wasn't going to have kids, or that she was infertile even. How would you react? Would you then scream and fight for her to have a child because you want a last name "preserved"? A family does not die with its last member; its individuals stand in the name of history.

I'm an only child in the situation as above, as is Davi. While we don't have a child yet (and haven't said, 100%, we will have one), we are both in the same "predictament" -- we're the last bloodlines of our family. But I sure as heck am not going to have a child for the reason of propetuating my family tree...I am going to have a child because I feel it is the right thing for me. I don't care how much pressure I get from the families to "make a baby", I am not going to do it simply to preserve a surname that means nothing unless it has a first name in front of it.

Families are not made by the number of children they have or how long they have had children, unless you're sitting on a throne where your heirs will inherit it. Families are made by the deeds of individuals that stand the tests of time.
"For us to have self-esteem is truly an act of revolution and our revolution is long overdue."
— Margaret Cho
User avatar
Rhiannon
Joy & Oblivion
Joy & Oblivion
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:10 pm

Unread postby Travis » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:10 am

James wrote:I see. Still, don’t forget that you are not part of a pool entity, when we stop thinking for ourselves we are no longer worth of being called human. It is okay for this to be your own personal view, but you must not ever follow something else blindly.


I don't really follow it blindly per say. I go out an interpret the Bible on my own. If I find my Pastor to make Sesne I will agree with him, but if I find fault I don't. I questioned why God wouldn't like Homosexuals myself and went to look it up (My Bible comes in handy, it has a quick reference finder on topics like this). I looked if up and read all the the area around it (often times people look at one bit of scripture, instead of reading the area to get the whole meaning), and found it said what it meant. But why do I believe it? Well with any religion, you have to have faith. If you don't believe in something, then whats the worth in living?
"Be on your Guard, Stand Firm in the Faith, Be Men of Courage, Be Strong, Do everything in Love" - Master Lee's School Motto-

Formerly Schwarz Bruder/Taishi Ci
User avatar
Travis
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 am
Location: Master Lee's TKD School (LaFayette, Ga USA)

Unread postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:10 am

As for homosexual marriage itself, the real topic of this thread...

I'm fine with homosexual marriage. I view marriage as a covenant of love between two people; I see no problem with any two people bonding themselves in this way. (The immigration argument is valid, however, and would be a major consideration).

Child wise, I'm with James on this one. A child should be raised under both feminine and masculine aspects (yup, Yin/Yang). I feel that if a homosexual couple can provide both of these aspects, they are well off in raising a child. Maybe a person in the relationship is excessively masculine and the other feminine, or better yet, having a person of the opposite sex help raise and mentor the child. It's not the gender roles I'm worried about being passed down -- I'd love to see those disappear into non-existance -- but it's the essences of masculinity and femininity. Any child (no matter who the parents are) should be raised in this kind of a balanced environment. There are hetero couples who shouldn't raise a child, and there are homosexual couples who should.

I don't think society is ready yet however for same-sex parenting. It would, indeed, be possible traumatic on a child and their family, with a lot of complications. I think in time, it could become enough of a norm (even if a norm in the minority, like Hispanics in Alaska) that society could get along comfortably past it.
"For us to have self-esteem is truly an act of revolution and our revolution is long overdue."
— Margaret Cho
User avatar
Rhiannon
Joy & Oblivion
Joy & Oblivion
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:10 pm

Unread postby Sam Da Man » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:11 am

Wild-Eyes wrote:As if those 100,000 gays represents a million precisely. You're stereotyping because of a gay parade that many gay activists stand against and a march in which many gays participated not to flaunt their sexuality, but to stand for equal rights under the law (as they see it). I don't exactly call that flaunting a life style. <mod edit, just trimming unnecessary quote> Families are not made by the number of children they have or how long they have had children, unless you're sitting on a throne where your heirs will inherit it. Families are made by the deeds of individuals that stand the tests of time.


I didn't say that you had to be gay in order to flaunt homosexuality.

Then it wouldn't be their fault. They are just a victim of circumstance. Being able to prevent it though would just be a disgrace. China is a country in which believes in this very much. They have great family values and believe their strength is not in themselves but everyone who has come before them and those who come after.

I don't know anyone who has a family and has children would not like to see their family stand the test of time. I have pride in my name. I would fight and die to protect others with the same blood as me.

I am not saying that people don't have a right to be gay. This is America and they should have the right to do whatever they want. To say that it is normal would be wrong though. Like james said I do accept them for who they are but do not feel the need to promote this type of behaviour.
"I have come out of the cave, join me" Sam Da Man's younger brother
Sam Da Man
Assistant
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 am
Location: Kealakekua

Unread postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:02 am

Sam Da Man wrote:Then it wouldn't be their fault. They are just a victim of circumstance. Being able to prevent it though would just be a disgrace. China is a country in which believes in this very much. They have great family values and believe their strength is not in themselves but everyone who has come before them and those who come after.


So you then believe that it's a woman's (daughter's) responsibility to give birth to children to perpetuate the family? Even if they're a horrible mother, or have problems with children? Even if they simply don't want to have a child in the world we live in?

*shakes her head* I totally disagree with that, and I think it's sexist and rude.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. I apologize; I'm not in friendly spirits today.
"For us to have self-esteem is truly an act of revolution and our revolution is long overdue."
— Margaret Cho
User avatar
Rhiannon
Joy & Oblivion
Joy & Oblivion
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:10 pm

Unread postby Sam Da Man » Tue Dec 24, 2002 6:33 am

Wild-Eyes wrote:
Sam Da Man wrote:Then it wouldn't be their fault. They are just a victim of circumstance. Being able to prevent it though would just be a disgrace. China is a country in which believes in this very much. They have great family values and believe their strength is not in themselves but everyone who has come before them and those who come after.


So you then believe that it's a woman's (daughter's) responsibility to give birth to children to perpetuate the family? Even if they're a horrible mother, or have problems with children? Even if they simply don't want to have a child in the world we live in?

*shakes her head* I totally disagree with that, and I think it's sexist and rude.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. I apologize; I'm not in friendly spirits today.


Well, it is what is expected but it is their choice in the end(as I said before that this is america and people should believe anyway they want). I still don't think that it is the right thing to do however.

It maybe sexist and rude but it is required to keep the human species alive. If none gave birth then it would be the end. Fertility should be looked on as a gift and not a burden.

We all have those days. :lol:
"I have come out of the cave, join me" Sam Da Man's younger brother
Sam Da Man
Assistant
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 am
Location: Kealakekua

Unread postby Travis » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:12 pm

Do we really want men to rasie children :?: :lol:
"Be on your Guard, Stand Firm in the Faith, Be Men of Courage, Be Strong, Do everything in Love" - Master Lee's School Motto-

Formerly Schwarz Bruder/Taishi Ci
User avatar
Travis
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 am
Location: Master Lee's TKD School (LaFayette, Ga USA)

Unread postby moshiman » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:10 pm

Think of it this way: The more man\man weds there are, the more ppl have to adopt kids. So, if ppl adopted kids, there would be less kids without parents. It's a little twisted way of thinking, but just to look a little optimistic...
'You live all your life, but you only die once.'
moshiman
Initiate
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:23 am

PreviousNext

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved