America, a democracy?

Discuss events that have an impact on you and the world today. A home for honest, serious, and open discussion.

America, a democratic country?

yes
9
18%
no
39
80%
never thought of it
1
2%
 
Total votes : 49

Unread postby Lu Fengxian » Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:22 am

I think American history can be called "A pathetic attempt at justice." But again, thats just me.

Anyway we vote and that leads to the election of people who vote. Its about as good as ancient Rome, but they had better titles.

In the 2000 election this became really clear. A man who did not win the presidency in a free and fair election was put in office by the supreme court which turned out to be anything but unbiased.

Look, one vote counted in Athens, why not now? And why do WE never get to vote on issuses, we just get to vote on who gets to vote on issues, its a poor system.
At that moment Li Ru spotted a man standing behind Ding Yuan, a massive presence that inspired a shiver of awe. The man was clenching a figured halberd with two side blades, his eyes filled with anger.
Lu Fengxian
Assistant
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:30 pm
Location: In my throne, planning YOUR fates...

Unread postby Tianshan Zi » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:30 am

No. The USA is a republic, practically an oligarchy.
User avatar
Tianshan Zi
Headless Thompson Gunner
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 3:18 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA, Earth, etc.

Unread postby James » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:44 am

Yeah, you covered some of the issues that I have trouble watching myself. American can be a difficult place for several social classes. Where I am, at the very least, Asians are treated with great respect, and they are not looked down on at all, and for the most part African Americans get along quite well. Mexicans, however, probably face some difficulties. As a group many of them are gang associated, and many are illegal immigrants, and these things create hostility in the American citizens. In return, I am sure, some of these Mexicans are hostile, and it puts others of their cultural background in a difficult position.

I imagine the racial tendencies vary a lot from place to place. Cities and states with great cultural diversity, like some places of New York, probably look more beyond that than areas where there are majority and minority racial backgrounds.

The issues with Americans attacking people who wear turbans, well, that is just sad. I haven’t heard much about it though. At least we have improved from what we did to the Japanese during World War II.

The poor? I am poor and I get along quite well. If you mean below the poverty line, or homeless, I can see the issue though. Many Americans, including me, feel that these people, the ones collecting welfare checks, are able to succeed in our society, but they simply choose not to as they have found a way to get society to give them a paycheck for doing nothing. I do not respect these people. I do, however, respect students to take some welfare assistance to get through college.

American culture has come a long way in the last one hundred years, but still has a long road ahead of it. I think one of the first things we have to start doing is treating everyone with equality, rather than providing special benefits to minority groups. I think providing those benefits just helps to forge a new kind of prejudice, and only serves to keep the two parts of American culture separate. You aren’t encouraging the concept of equality when a majority group member of society looses a job to a minority group with inferior talent and experience because the government told them they have to hire people of that sort.

Oh, and by the way. America calls itself a Republic with “strong Democratic traditions”.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17999
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Unread postby Vhalander » Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:36 pm

Quite honestly, I don't believe America is a democracy at all. It jsut sounds better, you know? "We come to establish a democratic government!" Rather than, "We come to establish a republican government!"


People just naturally think democracy = freedom. While, if by people you mean everyone, then everyone as a whole is free to descide. But the common person, a lone man, cannot really do anything. He's obligated to follow popular opinion. Why many people in America find it pointless to vote. One vote does not matter here.

I don't know why the electoral college was established in the first place. I could check real quick, I knew I heardwhy somewhere, I just can't recall it. It's still a, quite frankly, a stupid system. I believe Gore should have won, and I even originally voted for Bush.

And yes, it is the rich who win. You can't win without money. Look at all the secondary parties: Green, Liberal, etc. They just don't have enough funding..I think we should instead say, "root out the dictators of X country and replace the government with a Capitalistic theme!" :wink:
User avatar
Vhalander
Master
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:22 am

Unread postby Justin » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:59 pm

America is definately not a democracy. The word democracy does not appear in the constitution anywhere. America is a republic, a democractic republic, but a republic nonetheless. While many things have changed our system for briging in new presidents, senators, and reps has remained unchanged for since it was outlined in the constitution. And people can and do change their leaders all the time. Look at california, people dislike gray davis so much they made an effort to kick him out in the middle of a term. Granted he could be reelcted but the people made their voices and opinions known.

And while people may have this great idealistic view of the founding fathers they were in reality not very far from our own current politicians. Alot of them were drunks, like to womanize, and mud slining was a part of every single campaing. Hell a congressman took a cane and almost beat another guy to death on the senate floor in the 1800's. I would also say the life for the average citizen here is very very good even if you're poor. They used to throw people in jail for that. I would say we've made a lot of progress for better rights and standards of living for everyone. We have a lot of work to do but I say we're on the right track.
My Website

My Blog

The Dungeon

Trouble maker extraordinaire!
User avatar
Justin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 2:08 am
Location: Dropping it like it's hot

Unread postby James IV » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:04 am

Lu Fengxian wrote:I think American history can be called "A pathetic attempt at justice." But again, thats just me.

Anyway we vote and that leads to the election of people who vote. Its about as good as ancient Rome, but they had better titles.

In the 2000 election this became really clear. A man who did not win the presidency in a free and fair election was put in office by the supreme court which turned out to be anything but unbiased.

Look, one vote counted in Athens, why not now? And why do WE never get to vote on issuses, we just get to vote on who gets to vote on issues, its a poor system.


We have an electoral college for a reason. To make sure every state gets a say in the election. If it were up to popular vote, we may as well all move to California, Florida, Texas and New York since those four states would decide every election by themselves. I'm not defending Bush because I didn't vote for him or any other Demopublican or Republicrat, but he did win the election.
User avatar
James IV
Tyro
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:59 am
Location: Atlanta

Unread postby Kong Wen » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:14 am

James IV wrote:We have an electoral college for a reason. To make sure every state gets a say in the election. If it were up to popular vote, we may as well all move to California, Florida, Texas and New York since those four states would decide every election by themselves.


Well, if voting was based solely on votes (i.e. no electoral college), then moving to any of those states wouldn't make a difference--one vote is one vote. The idea that a "state" gets a say in the choice is kind of strange anyway--why should a "state" or official organization with 100 people pull as much weight as a state with 1000000 people in an election that is going to determine the person who will rule both states? The people of the State get to choose their governor, who has his own powers in the federal government.

As it stands, the electoral college makes one person's vote matter more than that of another person, which I don't really agree with. Sure, it has its advantages, but...
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11905
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby Vhalander » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:09 pm

Quite honestly, I see no advantage to the system. Like people said, it makes one persons vote stronger than another. All that does is make America even less Democratic. Now it's not what the people want, but what the "states" want. Like the 2000 election, Gore should have won. Yes, I did vote for Bush, but Gore should have won. He had the popular vote, plain and simple. I find no need for the college.
User avatar
Vhalander
Master
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:22 am

Unread postby Enrique M. » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:47 pm

Lion's Mane wrote:Well, other than the simple fact that America is a Republic and not a Democracy doesn't change my views.


Exactly, no more discussion is neccessary after this point. America isn't a democracy, it's a republic.
Enrique M.
 

Unread postby Vhalander » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:06 am

Enrique M. wrote:
Lion's Mane wrote:Well, other than the simple fact that America is a Republic and not a Democracy doesn't change my views.


Exactly, no more discussion is neccessary after this point. America isn't a democracy, it's a republic.


I think it's more so the fact that saying we're a Democracy when we aren't than that we actualy aren't we are getting at. Plus we have stray talks about the electoral college going on. :roll:
User avatar
Vhalander
Master
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:22 am

PreviousNext

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved

 
cron