Cloning...

Discuss events that have an impact on you and the world today. A home for honest, serious, and open discussion.

Cloning

Unread postby JayWilliamson007 » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:20 pm

I have an attitude that cloning is neither profitable nor immoral. I think that the Divine has no attitude towards it either, it is a human issue. As the created, it is our duty to explore the aspects of creation that is what we were put here to do in the beginning. It has not changed, man was meant to explore the world of science, and to gain knowledge of the Creator through it. I believe that, perhaps through cloning, we might be able to unlock the vastness of the mind of God. :idea:
Rage against tyranny and oppression.
Jay Williamson
JayWilliamson007
Tyro
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: USA

Unread postby CnB2186 » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:21 pm

Wan Hung Lo wrote:You realize these clones while looking exactly the same could end up with very different personalitites. So much of who you are is based on your upbrining. Until we can clone a person into full adult form they are born as babies and have to be raised like a normal person.


Thats the best way to explan this whole deal. This is right. :wink:
CnB2186
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:12 pm
Location: RockSprings, Ga

Re: Cloning

Unread postby CnB2186 » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:27 pm

JayWilliamson007 wrote:I have an attitude that cloning is neither profitable nor immoral. I think that the Divine has no attitude towards it either, it is a human issue. As the created, it is our duty to explore the aspects of creation that is what we were put here to do in the beginning. It has not changed, man was meant to explore the world of science, and to gain knowledge of the Creator through it. I believe that, perhaps through cloning, we might be able to unlock the vastness of the mind of God. :idea:


I dont believe that it was God intent for us to try to be like him(creating). God didn't give us the power to choose who lives our dies(abourtion). Yeah the bible says for us to be like Jesus, but in mind and body(to live the life jesus did and to show Gods works and power through us, but not by taking his job of creating). I stand on the word and i dont believe i tring to create a fake image of myself our anyone else.
CnB2186
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:12 pm
Location: RockSprings, Ga

Re: Cloning

Unread postby rcsha » Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:02 am

CnB2186 wrote:I dont believe that it was God intent for us to try to be like him(creating).


Keep in mind speaking in a hypothetical sense, you mostly all know my religious beliefs...

Ddid got not creat humans in his own image? First of all, that is cloning right? Creating something that is different form you, but is in your own image. Also, since we are created in the image of God, doesn't that make us like him? And since we are simply an image of god, we have similar attributes, such as the ability to create images of ourselves.

Interesting, eh?

CnB2186 wrote:God didn't give us the power to choose who lives our dies(abourtion).


Well clearly he did give us the power to choose who lives and dies, otherwise the debate on abortion wouldn't be a problem.

And until someone can come up with a good excuse that states why the Crusades were allowed by God, but not abortion...I'm simply going to laugh anytime someone says abortion is wrong because it's killing. Especially considering the 7th crusade (or maybe it was the fourth?), when we sent hundreds of children to the Middle East...thinking that Muslims couldn't refuse the voices of singing children. The children slaughtered by the defending Muslims, and those who survived worked hard as slaves. Is this not killing children...what makes it different from abortion?

Now then, one final time...this is all hypothetical, I don't belive that aborted 'babies' are even babies at all. I don't believe a mass of cells that does not contain a concious brain or even lungs and a heart is a person...those are usually called tumors.
User avatar
rcsha
Ao Kaio Nankou
 
Posts: 1084
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:02 am

Cloning...abortion?...crusades?

Unread postby JayWilliamson007 » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:04 pm

Why do you believe that God allowed the crusades? I don't think that he would. :roll:
But that is hardly connected to cloning. There is a difference between killing someone and starting a life. I believe that abortion is murder, but again that is beside the point. We do not create the spirit, we create the body, God would create the spirit and put it into the body. Usually this is done at conception, but in cloning, it would be done when the cells begin to multiply.
Rage against tyranny and oppression.
Jay Williamson
JayWilliamson007
Tyro
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: USA

Re: Cloning

Unread postby CnB2186 » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:34 pm

First of all, that is cloning right? Creating something that is different form you, but is in your own image. Also, since we are created in the image of God, doesn't that make us like him? And since we are simply an image of god, we have similar attributes, such as the ability to create images of ourselves.


1) He created us in his likeness. If me and my wife have a baby is it cloning?No, its creating a bring in the likeness of me and my wife to together. It's kinda the same thing here. Cloning is creating a being in the exact look alike as one that has already been created. God created each of us different did he not. Now how can he look like all of us. Its the same as having babies, in the manner that it may be the same parents but all the babies dont look the same.

Well clearly he did give us the power to choose who lives and dies, otherwise the debate on abortion wouldn't be a problem.


2) Just cause we can do it doesn't mean that it is in gods will(from God). I can commit adultery but is it not still a sin.
CnB2186
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:12 pm
Location: RockSprings, Ga

Consumation

Unread postby JayWilliamson007 » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:38 pm

Are you suggesting that God created human beings by sexual intercourse :?:
Rage against tyranny and oppression.
Jay Williamson
JayWilliamson007
Tyro
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: USA

Re: Cloning

Unread postby Rhiannon » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:52 pm

CnB2186 wrote:1) He created us in his likeness. If me and my wife have a baby is it cloning?No, its creating a bring in the likeness of me and my wife to together. It's kinda the same thing here. Cloning is creating a being in the exact look alike as one that has already been created. God created each of us different did he not. Now how can he look like all of us. Its the same as having babies, in the manner that it may be the same parents but all the babies dont look the same.


But you also admitted that cloning doesn't create an exact duplicate of the person. It may LOOK like them, but they have a different personality and upbringing. So what's the difference?

Children look like a mixture of their parents (people who have children through cloning would also be using the same procedure). They are not their parents however, because its personality and upbringing are different from theirs. It's a being created in the likeness of man and woman.

Cloning doesn't produce exact replicas either. Small little genetic twists still come out in the end that produces a slightly individual in looks. Besides, tell me what's wrong with having two people or creatures that look just alike (ever heard of identical twins), when we already know they're going to be completely different in terms of personality and etc.?
"For us to have self-esteem is truly an act of revolution and our revolution is long overdue."
— Margaret Cho
User avatar
Rhiannon
Joy & Oblivion
Joy & Oblivion
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:10 pm

Re: Cloning

Unread postby Seven at One Stroke » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:21 am

Wild-Eyes wrote:Children look like a mixture of their parents (people who have children through cloning would also be using the same procedure). They are not their parents however, because its personality and upbringing are different from theirs. It's a being created in the likeness of man and woman.

Cloning doesn't produce exact replicas either. Small little genetic twists still come out in the end that produces a slightly individual in looks. Besides, tell me what's wrong with having two people or creatures that look just alike (ever heard of identical twins), when we already know they're going to be completely different in terms of personality and etc.?


Let me go on a tangent here. Cloning is asexual reproduction, while normally we humans use sexual reproduction. The obvious difference is that during sexual reproduction the cells go through meiosis and create four gametes that contain entirely different chromosomes than the ones in the parent cell. Once they combine with the other gamete and grow into an embryo, with drastically different set of genetic information than either of the parents'. Although the structure of the DNA is still the same, the information can vary (sometimes the structure varies too). Of course then you get a very diverse population of offsprings.

Diversity=good; homogeneity=bad. If you have a population of homogenous people, and a specific type of flu that they're vulnerable to hits them, then the entire population goes under. Even in natural twins, if one is susceptible to one type of disease the other one is likely to be susceptible to that same disease as well.

My opinion is that the mass production of homogenous "super-humans" is impractically, if not dangerous.
Moderation in pursuit of actual work is no vice.
User avatar
Seven at One Stroke
Sei's Slave
 
Posts: 1852
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 4:16 am

Re: Cloning

Unread postby Rhiannon » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:33 am

The Yellow Dwarf wrote: Let me go on a tangent here. Cloning is asexual reproduction, while normally we humans use sexual reproduction. The obvious difference is that during sexual reproduction the cells go through meiosis and create four gametes that contain entirely different chromosomes than the ones in the parent cell. ....

My opinion is that the mass production of homogenous "super-humans" is impractically, if not dangerous.


Oh, I definitely agree with that. But couldn't cloning technologies replicate sexual reproduction by artificially creating meoisis?
"For us to have self-esteem is truly an act of revolution and our revolution is long overdue."
— Margaret Cho
User avatar
Rhiannon
Joy & Oblivion
Joy & Oblivion
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved