Indonesia,Malaysia and Singapore

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Indonesia,Malaysia and Singapore

Unread postby Chen Kun » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:46 pm

There are many conflicts among these three nations though they are close neighbors.As citizens of these three nations,what is your opinion about it?what is the real problem?jealousy?miscommunication?economy competition?territory?or what?
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Unread postby Wen Choung » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:51 pm

Hmm...what arguments are going about? I haven't heard anything about them so fill us in.

All I know is that Indonesia has a majority of Muslim citizens.
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Unread postby Chen Kun » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:58 pm

1.Indonesia accuses Singapore for harboring criminals from Indonesia(the corruptors)
2.Singapore accuses Indonesia for harboring terrorists.

1.Territorial problem (Sipadan and Ligitan Islands)
2.Indonesian workers problem in Malaysia
3.not to mention the border problem in Borneo island

well,I think Singaporeans in this forum know better than me :?
water problem,territory problem,etc.
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Unread postby Mu Shu » Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:48 pm

I'm not from any of these countries but here is what i know about these countries.

1. Singapore is a tiny island with a population of 4.5 million, 77% is Chinese, 14% Malay, and 8% Indian.
2. Malaysia has 23 million, 58% Malay, 24% Chinese, 8% Indian
3. Indonesia has 231 million, and several ethnic groups also.

Both Malaysia and Indonesia surround tiny Singapore, but Malaysia is much closer seperated only by a causeway.

Compare the per capita incomes:
1. Singapore ~$25,000
2. Malaysia ~$9000
3. Indonesia ~$3000

Singapore's per capita income is equivalent to Western European countries whereas Malaysia and Indonesia are much lower.

Now what does all this have to do with the tensions between these countries. Everything. The ethnic differences and the differences in wealth are perhaps the most important reason underlying these tensions although there are also many other reasons also.

In the past Indonesia and Malaysia believed that Singapore was a haven for Communist Insurgents because of its Chinese majority. Indonesia had a very bloody purge of communists in the 1960s. Many ethnically Chinese-Indonesians were massacred regardless of whether they actually had communist ties.

Recently during the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, many Indonesians once again blamed the ethnic Chinese for the problems, just like the Nazi's blamed the Jews during the 1930s. Chinese businesses were looted and burned. And quite a few people were brutally massacred. Singapore was also blamed for the Crisis because it is the banking capital of SE Asia (much like Wall Street is for the US).

Due to the seemingly inherent mistrust of Chinese among Malays and other ethnic groups in this region. Singapore needs to maintain a very powerful military (similar to Israel). The US Navy also regularly uses a military dock in Singapore. This is because Singapore actively encourages good relations with the US Navy and also because the Singapore Straits are very strategically located.
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Unread postby Chen Kun » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:48 pm

This is a dangerous situation especially to Singapore. Some people begin to think that Singapore is the Israel of South East Asia :?
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Unread postby Russell » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:03 pm

Hm.. Singapore should try better diplomatic relations or has it tried this?
I suppose I should put something here, shouldn't I?
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Unread postby Travis » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:05 pm

Huang Zhong wrote:Hm.. Singapore should try better diplomatic relations or has it tried this?

Sry that was me, he left his name logged in on my computer :lol:
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Unread postby Zhanghe_of_Wei » Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:49 am

Although there have been scuffles among these countries, I doubt the situation would be aggravated into a full-blown war anytime soon. I want to make this clear because I live in this region, and don't want others to have the wrong impression that the place is very dangerous and such.
In fact, arguments have ceased (temporarily(?)) as Malaysia and Indonesia are helping Singapore over a Navy ship collision off Pedra Branca (a small island east of S'pore). One person(a female 2nd sergeant) is still missing, and cause of the accident still unknown.
I now refer to Chen Kun's post;
Indonesia-Singapore Accusing each other of harbouring criminals/terrorists. That's just dumb :x Why? Because both countries know for themselves that they're not perfectly free of these people. Singapore has made dozens of arrests of suspected JI ( a radical Islamic group) terrorists since Sept 11. Indonesia, after the bomb blast in Bali, have made arrests as well. Why accuse others when you have similar problems yourself?
1.The feud for territorial possesion of Sipadan and Ligitan (sp?) islands settled. They belong to Malaysia as ruled by the International Court of Justice.
2. Much less media coverage but I suspect it is still unsettled.
3. Didn't really come across this issue, so no comments.
Malaysia-Singapore Where to start? :? :lol: Two major and relatively recent ones are:-
Water issue: Singapore wants to renew contract and continue buying water from Malaysian state of Johore. Parties can never seem to agree on prices :x
Territorial scuffle: For Pedra Branca (yes, the same one mentioned above) Arguments started with S'pore building a lighthouse or something on the tiny island (Seen it on TV news, God is it small...) Actually, the island seems to be located closer to M'sia than S'pore, but S'pore seemed to have more activity on it in history. Don't know for sure; the issue has yet to be settled.

My opinion is that M'sia and Indonesia are a little jealous of S'pore. Of the three, her economy is slightly more stable, her currency is stronger, her government is uncorrupt (I can't say perfectly so, but I've not come across any in the media) and generally fair to all races/religions of people. Not that I'm saying S'pore is superior in all other fields though.
I'll leave it as that for now.
Last edited by Zhanghe_of_Wei on Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Starscream » Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:58 am

Singapore is like Jingzhou, how the territorial boundaries came about is not too clear. Even Raffles himself cleverly devised a strategy (pretty underhanded IMO :lol:) to cut Singapore off the rest of Malaysia for British colonial use in the past. Where should boundaries be drawn is a big question.

In a case of bad diplomatic ties, both parties should be responsible, Malaysia has been throwing some lame accusations of this and that about Singapore, and Singapore has been in some ways arrogant towards Malaysia. The water problem is not new to us. Singapore has been importing raw water from Malaysia and exporting purified water to Malaysia of course at a higher cost (for purification). If either parties raise the cost of the resources, would it not obviously lead to conflict? Further to that, Singapore has been thinking of other strategies to obtain water, e.g. distillation, sign water treaty with Indonesia. Malaysia of course would not be pleased about it. Thus, the water issue will not be resolved at least for a long time. :?
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Unread postby Lady Lazarus » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:44 am

And the ancestors of those people are probably the same (Chinese?) :roll: ...
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