The best solution?

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Unread postby Wen Choung » Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:05 am

Humanitarian campaigns are not as easy in some parts of the world as it is in America. Especially Middle Eastern nations where much terrorism and anti-American sympathizers are.

We live in a much much different world than they do. Here in America, a 10-year old can say to herself, "That poor person looks cold, let's get everyone to collect coats and toys so they won't feel so bad!" And voila the campaign/project takes off and 8 years later she's famous and is going to one of the nations ivy league schools... :lol:

But in many third world countries, that 10-year old girl IS that poor person. There is not that kind of freedom. Propaganda, used by ALL nations to some degree, can be very damaging if used correctly, and "correctly" in many of those nations may be a good 80-99%.

Plus airdropping may have worked in Germany post WWII because the US "owned" a piece of Berlin. The US doesn't own a piece of the Middle East, other than embassies and bases. But citizens can't exactly walk up to an American military base in single files and have food handed to them...at least not as far as I know.

Even if the American's do airdrop supplies, I'm guessing the first ones there will be the enemy military, enemy officers, and enemy politicians...feeding our enemies eh? Interesting stratedy...
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Unread postby Justin » Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:31 am

The problem isn't normally a lack of food. The US airdropping food really doesn't help much when that food can't get to the people who need it. And that is usually the source of the problem. It's not that there isn't enough food it's that someone is diverting or keeping that food from getting to the people who need it the most.
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Unread postby The Masked Moogle » Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:33 am

That's why you send in exiles and humanitarian agents to see that it gets distributed. And it's only to pave the way for creating a successful regime in the country, not as the be-all and end-all solution.
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Unread postby Travis » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:21 am

A humanitarian campaign won't work until the media is free from Government control. We can feed them all we want to, but what happens when the government delivers the message it was unholy pig meat? What happens when the tell them not to take the food it will only lure them from Allah b/c we are the great white devils? It's a nice train of thought, but will utterly fail in the end.
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Unread postby The Masked Moogle » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:50 am

The point is to SHOW them that we're not the Great White Devils. When someone visits you and gives you a nice meal while you're starving and says "Courtesy of the U.S. of A.", people get the hint.

That's the whole POINT of a humanitarian campaign. To override the popular notion of your villainy.
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Unread postby Travis » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:15 am

The Masked Moogle wrote:The point is to SHOW them that we're not the Great White Devils. When someone visits you and gives you a nice meal while you're starving and says "Courtesy of the U.S. of A.", people get the hint.

That's the whole POINT of a humanitarian campaign. To override the popular notion of your villainy.


You missed the point, they aren't going to accpet the food or whatever else we do if the government tells them to stay away because Allah will scorn them to hell becasue the food is unholy. They would sooner starve themselves than eat it if they think it is unholy.

If they are willing to blow themselves up on other people, willing to ram airplanes into office buildings, and kidnap US citizens and murder them all in the name of Allah to keep us Christian Devils away, What on God's green Earth would sending them a few bits of food do to change thier mind even if they do accept it?
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Unread postby The Masked Moogle » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:03 am

Define "they" in that last paragraph. Not every Middle Eastern is a terrorist. Nor is every Middle Eastern any kind of fanatic at all. Just about all of them are ordinary people who happened to be born in a contested area of the world. People, who, when offered food and medicine, will accept it. Hunger beats propaganda any day, regardless of how uneducated and gullible the populace are.

Those people, who aren't fanatical in any way, will be able to see the propaganda as lies. If we don't have enough faith in them to even be able to distinguish nonsense from fact despite their lack of education than there's no point in even being over there. We should just turn the whole place into a sheet of glass. [/sarcasm]
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Unread postby Mu Shu » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:07 am

Taishi Ci wrote:You missed the point, they aren't going to accpet the food or whatever else we do if the government tells them to stay away because Allah will scorn them to hell becasue the food is unholy. They would sooner starve themselves than eat it if they think it is unholy.

If they are willing to blow themselves up on other people, willing to ram airplanes into office buildings, and kidnap US citizens and murder them all in the name of Allah to keep us Christian Devils away, What on God's green Earth would sending them a few bits of food do to change thier mind even if they do accept it?


Anti-americanism in Arab countries is really not because of religion. The media tends to focus on the religious aspects because its easy to.

The majority of Americans once believed that African slaves were fundamentally inferior because of their culture, genetics etc... Today many Americans seem to believe in the false notion that the Muslim religion is somehow warlike and evil... This is just as biased and racist as the old belief that Africans and Asians are inferior.

People of the Middle East are fundamentally no different than Americans. More similar than different. When African Americans were roused to anger by the Rodney King trials... the LA riots occurred. These people weren't roused to anger by religion. They were roused to anger by the sense of injustice. This is also what breeds terrorist. Whether by good reason or not, these terrorists believe that American policy in the Middle East is unjust.

Now obviously terrorism (hurting innocent civilians) is an unwise choice of political expression. It give the Middle East a seriously bad image problem. But feeding the sense of injustice against Muslims by waging continuous wars against Muslim countries is just as unwise a political move.

The US is in danger of becoming like Israel, caught in an endless cycle of meaningless warfare... If the US dropped all support for Israel and moved all forces out of the Middle East, it's hard to imagine why any terrorist would waste his life trying to blow up Americans.... Terrorism exists because the US is compelled to manage the affairs of these foreign countries against the will of their people by both covert operations and outright military force.

The person who plays with fire shouldn't be surprised when they are burned.

Anyway, its too late for peace now... The US created Saddam... The US created the Taliban... The US created Al Queda... Now these Frakensteins have to be killed. Lesson to be learned: "don't mess with the affairs of foreign countries"... "Let the Barbarians fight each other, don't get involved"...
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Unread postby Wen Choung » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:36 am

True. There is that bad image of Islam, but I never hold that Islam is the source. When those governments twist that Islamic faith, they use that faith to reinforce that war-hungry hate of the Western world. And such a powerful reinforcer it is!

But I agree with you, Mu Shu, that the US created these "Frankensteins" but there is nothing else to do but suck it in and face the problems now. Hopefully, the US would learn from her neverending mistakes...
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Unread postby Wen Choung » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:02 am

!!!

I have been enlightened! Partially.

In Latin class today (Jan. 21), we were doing Cicero's First Oration against Catiline. It is a speech made by Cicero that talks about Catiline's attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire.

Anyways, my teacher points out that the conspiracy has been going on for a long time so Cicero does not want to execute Catiline else Catiline would be considered a martyr. When it is at its beginnings, "nip" it and it will go away. But it's been growing for a while so if you get rid of the leader, another will take its place.

That has already been pointed out by many people but it's never hit me so hard! So my thoughts have changed since the past 10 hours. All out war is not the solution! But dropping food isn't the solution either (sorry Moogle :D )!

I think a good way to deal with terrorism is to incarcerate their leaders, as opposed to executing them. Thus, "hope" would be alive yet at good chance unattainable. When more leaders arise, they should be captured as well. Imprisoning the leaders keep new leaders from rising up as quickly and after a while (perhaps a decade? maybe two...), their cause will die. But at the same time, we must fight the war to capture these men. That is the course I'm thinking about and analyzing in my head.
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