Animal Testing

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Unread postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:28 pm

I know I'm going to have to bring in spiritual beliefs in here, for sake of explaining my opinion and standpoint on this, so please bear with me.

The core of my beliefs are very animistic; I'm a druid. The earth and its inhabitants understand a clear sense of purpose, even if it seems injust or unfair to us humans. Even death has its purposes, even if it's simply to bring about a change in human thinking. That doesn't mean nature is resigned to its many purposes -- many make it sad or uneased -- but it understands them as a necessary way of operating the world.

To borrow James' example of his snake, the mouse that feeds his snake knows that is its purpose in death. However, if his snakes eats a baby, a human certainly wouldn't turn around and say "That baby's purpose was to feed the snake".

That's why I find animal testing okay in proper boundaries and uses. I know (and by know, I don't mean empircally, I mean spiritually, take it as you will) that they accept this as part of their life and death. It's simply not our place to abuse that "priveledge" we have over their lives.

That's where "equal value" of their lives compared with ours comes in. All of our lives do have equal value -- but not in the human's sense of "their lives are more expendable than ours" (ie, whom is it more proper to let die). It's in the sense of purpose -- that each life has its own unique, small but powerful purpose, even if we do not see it clearly. The mouse that lives two days in testing is then as equal as the mouse that lives a lifetime free; the human that dies five months after its birth is just as equal as the human that lives to one hundred and twelve.
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Unread postby James » Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:04 am

Very well said Wild-Eyes; again I am in complete agreement. It is unfortunate, however, that as long as scientists are given the right to test animals they will always take it to extremes. I guess that is the way of humanity.

While I will never go into a profession that involves the deaths of any living beings, I also realize the merits involved. I happen to be the exception in accepting this in my own faith as well.

We would be better off if PETA and other animal rights groups didn’t spew off endless quotes along the lines off “if one hundred humans had to die to save one thousand animals I would be in complete favor of it”. Society does not accept fanatical views like this, and it only does damage to what could be a noble cause if headed by responsible and clear-minded people.
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Unread postby Rhiannon » Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:07 am

James wrote:We would be better off if PETA and other animal rights groups didn’t spew off endless quotes along the lines off “if one hundred humans had to die to save one thousand animals I would be in complete favor of it”. Society does not accept fanatical views like this, and it only does damage to what could be a noble cause if headed by responsible and clear-minded people.


This is one of the reasons why I want to go into Environmental Law. I feel that organizations like PETA are far too fanatical and have gone from actually having sense, to not even hearing what comes out of their own mouths anymore. I think one person following legal means (eg a lawyer) can achieve far more than their constant, radical protests ever can. I feel just as strongly inside as they do about protecting our earth, but I don't think the fanatical things they speak (which I don't think they believe either, I simply think most of it is used for attention), and I think that so much more can be done by quiet people who follow the laws of the land.

PETA also uses some poor methods of taking surveys (they once sent me the same, biased question survey 7 times in one year. I only sent the first one in. Then I learned more about PETA and stopped. :) ) From then on, I've always payed close attention to the real deal behind environmental organizations.

Just to illustrate how far some organizations take it, one day a few years ago I was in the library browsing at magazines, and picked up one of these fanatical group's magazines (I don't know if it was PETA or someone else). They had a picture in the magazine (edited, obviously, but still realistic looking) of a kitten on a stick with its lower half of its body gone and its guts trailing on the plate...protesting how some countries eat cat meat, projecting this disgusting "photograph" as if the countries make such delight in the animals suffering.

Animal testing has been taken to extremes, yes. Sadly, those extremes are mostly law-breaking now (even though they are still rampant), because many laws have been passed to protect these animals, and yet, you can find the testing conditions haven't changed...
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Unread postby Justin » Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:20 am

PETA has told more lies than truth. I have no idea how they stay in existence. They do not meet the standards for a charitable organisation, they are about to be put on the domestic terrorist list of the FBI.

All of this can be seen at http://www.guidestar.org/

and here http://sluglord.hektik.org/peta/

Animal testing that PETA shows does not happen in the United States. The footage they show is either from out of country, faked, or very very old. Nothing but lies, but people still donate time and time again.
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Unread postby parinirvana » Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:24 am

aren't we animal?
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Unread postby James » Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:37 am

parinirvana wrote:aren't we animal?

Animal
an·i·mal n

1. a living organism that is distinguished from plants by independent movement and responsive sense organs
Looking good so far…

2. a land mammal other than a human being
Damn… guess humans don’t like being animals.

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:46 am

James wrote:
parinirvana wrote:aren't we animal?

Animal
an·i·mal n

1. a living organism that is distinguished from plants by independent movement and responsive sense organs
Looking good so far…

2. a land mammal other than a human being
Damn… guess humans don’t like being animals.

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999


hahaha..choose one then. :D



Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary wrote:1 : any of a kingdom (Animalia) of living things including many-celled organisms and often many of the single-celled ones (as protozoans) that typically differ from plants in having cells without cellulose walls, in lacking chlorophyll and the capacity for photosynthesis, in requiring more complex food materials (as proteins), in being organized to a greater degree of complexity, and in having the capacity for spontaneous movement and rapid motor responses to stimulation
2 a : one of the lower animals as distinguished from human beings
2 b : MAMMAL; broadly : VERTEBRATE
3 : a human being considered chiefly as physical or nonrational; also : this nature
4 : a person with a particular interest or aptitude <a political animal>
5 : MATTER, THING <the theater ... is an entirely different animal -- Arthur Miller>; also : CREATURE 1c
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Unread postby Dennis » Thu Dec 26, 2002 12:22 pm

http://www.goveg.com/cookies.html

http://www.peta.org/feat/pinup/index.html

Well I am no expert on saving animals, but it seems that PETA has stooped to some pretty low levels for publicity stunts, like having a model give pictures of herself away to the military men.

They're hurting for class, and morals.

I mean, I wouldn't wear fur, and I wouldn't wear leather, but seriosuly, these dudes don't know when to draw the line.
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Unread postby James » Thu Dec 26, 2002 1:33 pm

Jia Wenhe wrote:I mean, I wouldn't wear fur, and I wouldn't wear leather, but seriosuly, these dudes don't know when to draw the line.

No, they are pure fanatics through and through. There are also many issues of violence against people wearing leather and skins. If you search the Internet there is no end to their publicity stunts. These are exactly the wrong people to represent and stand up for animal rights.
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Unread postby Travis » Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:53 pm

I like how Bill O'Reilly squared off against one of PETA's spokespeople from playboy. :lol:

PETA is insane. I wear fur and leather, but I simpley don't believe in animal abuse. I love my dog more than any person, but I do understand why we have animal testing to keep from having perfumes to melt of human skin and what not. (K bad example) But I wouldn't justify DNA mutation. I mean crashing the Victoria's Secrets Show ruined my day :x PETA should't even be existant what they do qualifies to be on the border of Terrorism.
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