Is any war 'Just'?

Discuss events that have an impact on you and the world today. A home for honest, serious, and open discussion.

Is any war 'Just'?

Unread postby Harimau » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:15 am

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy"- Mahatma Gandhi, Non-Violence in Peace and War


" I do wish people would not deceive themselves by talk of a just war. There is no such thing as a just war. What we are doing is casting out Satan by Satan. - Charles Hamilton Sorley.


Note: What i say here mostly is just for the sake of actually starting a debate for the purpose of discussion and awareness. I dont actually believe it. Im just taking the point of view of other people other than the one the mass media always presents.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the recent talks about war in Iraq as a part of the "war on terror", this question has come up. Is what America is doing is just? After all, if you think about it in numbers, America has killed more people on their side than American Dead. Its just not the "War On Terror". Can that be called just? From this point of view, if there is anything that is called just, they (for the sake of the arguement. I dont actually believe this) are actually more justified in attacking America rather than America attacking them. (The terrorists i mean).Has any war in the history ever been just? After all, it all amounts to death and sorrow on both sides. What do you think? Is the war on terror just considering what the US have done to them FIRST? Or is there any war in our history that has ever been just? After all isnt it just a tad unfair that the US is singling out Iraq so much?

Look at this cartoons too:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
If I'm posting here, it means I'm procrastinating.
Harimau
Shangshu Ling
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 2:08 am
Location: Sydney

Unread postby Sam Da Man » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:42 am

No war is just. It is only just if it is begun to stop something that is unjust(genocide ect. ect. ect.). All wars are usually started to gain something for it or to stop someone from gaining something(whether good or bad). So, all wars at which are first started are usually bad(although to prevent something bad is different).
"I have come out of the cave, join me" Sam Da Man's younger brother
Sam Da Man
Assistant
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 am
Location: Kealakekua

Unread postby Jonathan » Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:13 pm

War is justifiable, in the situation with America and Iraq, as well as America and Afghanistan. I fully support Bush’s decisions, and I also fully support the idea of America being the super power in the world. But in the situation with Hitler and his crusade, well . . . it would have been a bit more understandable if he didn’t strike at the Jews and other races, because of his dream of the “supreme race”.

I believe sometimes war is necessary, even though that every war hurts the innocent and helpless, but that is what you can call reality.

Those cartoon pictures are more used in political warfare, people trying to ruin Bush’s reputation with the people. Most likely a democratic party, and some of the others are Americans speaking out against terrorism, like the Statue of Liberty holding Sadam above some wolves, I find that patriotic.
Also known as Zhuge Xuanshi
"The problem with the gene pool is, there's no lifeguard."
-Steven Wright
User avatar
Jonathan
Censored
Censored
 
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:14 am

Unread postby Travis » Sun Dec 22, 2002 6:59 pm

War can be just a very just thing. Look at World War 2, Was it right for us to interefere with European affairs by stopping Hitler and the Axis Powers? Yes. That is Justifiable, stopping a mad man and his allies from conquering the world? Is this not a justifiable reason for war? By fighting in this war, the US and its allies saved the Jewish people from genocide, saved countless countries from Nazi rule, and prevented more lives from being lost than nessicary. Right now, the US was attacked, and they would attack again if they had the chance to. The US and allies must defend themselves, yes defend themselves. Yes, defense of ones nation and it's people is cause enough to call a war just. The aggressors in this war are the radical Islamic states (Iran, Iraq, Saudia Arabia) located in the middle east whom harbor the terrorist we look for, even paying $25,000 to the family of suicide bomber who kill Israeli citizens (Iraq), an ally to the US. This enemy is not like any faced in the past, they are more fanatical than the kamakazi pilots of Japan, even fanatical enough to use a ten year old child as bomb (happened to Israeli soldiers on the West Bank). Also propaganda there is immensely anti-US. All the Press, except Al Gizeera (it think that is how it's spelled), Is Govt. Controlled. The Media in the Middle East Litterally brainwashes the masses into beliveing the US is evil, and wants to destroy Islam or something like that. This has to stop or else countless more US citizens will be lost as a result of terrorist fanatics. This is enough cause for war to me. The cartoons there are just Political Propoganda put out by a liberal artist undoubtedly, and the quotes though profound, are wrong.
"Be on your Guard, Stand Firm in the Faith, Be Men of Courage, Be Strong, Do everything in Love" - Master Lee's School Motto-

Formerly Schwarz Bruder/Taishi Ci
User avatar
Travis
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 am
Location: Master Lee's TKD School (LaFayette, Ga USA)

Unread postby Sam Da Man » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:43 pm

Taishi Ci wrote:War can be just a very just thing. Look at World War 2, Was it right for us to interefere with European affairs by stopping Hitler and the Axis Powers? Yes. That is Justifiable, stopping a mad man and his allies from conquering the world? Is this not a justifiable reason for war? By fighting in this war, the US and its allies saved the Jewish people from genocide, saved countless countries from Nazi rule, and prevented more lives from being lost than nessicary. Right now, the US was attacked, and they would attack again if they had the chance to. The US and allies must defend themselves, yes defend themselves. Yes, defense of ones nation and it's people is cause enough to call a war just. The aggressors in this war are the radical Islamic states (Iran, Iraq, Saudia Arabia) located in the middle east whom harbor the terrorist we look for, even paying $25,000 to the family of suicide bomber who kill Israeli citizens (Iraq), an ally to the US. This enemy is not like any faced in the past, they are more fanatical than the kamakazi pilots of Japan, even fanatical enough to use a ten year old child as bomb (happened to Israeli soldiers on the West Bank). Also propaganda there is immensely anti-US. All the Press, except Al Gizeera (it think that is how it's spelled), Is Govt. Controlled. The Media in the Middle East Litterally brainwashes the masses into beliveing the US is evil, and wants to destroy Islam or something like that. This has to stop or else countless more US citizens will be lost as a result of terrorist fanatics. This is enough cause for war to me. The cartoons there are just Political Propoganda put out by a liberal artist undoubtedly, and the quotes though profound, are wrong.


Yes, this is what I called forced action against somthing that was started which was unjust.

Did you know that in the middle east it is a fact(to them) that 9/11 was a jewish plot to incriminate muslims?
"I have come out of the cave, join me" Sam Da Man's younger brother
Sam Da Man
Assistant
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 am
Location: Kealakekua

Unread postby Travis » Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:34 pm

That wouldn't suprise me any. After all they are nuts :roll:

War can be unjust though, Don't get me wrong, those cartoons are just bs...
"Be on your Guard, Stand Firm in the Faith, Be Men of Courage, Be Strong, Do everything in Love" - Master Lee's School Motto-

Formerly Schwarz Bruder/Taishi Ci
User avatar
Travis
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 am
Location: Master Lee's TKD School (LaFayette, Ga USA)

Unread postby Sam Da Man » Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:38 pm

Taishi Ci wrote:That wouldn't suprise me any. After all they are nuts :roll:

War can be unjust though, Don't get me wrong, those cartoons are just bs...


Its not that they are nuts. Its just that they are a people who are illiterate which makes them very susceptible to propaganda. Education is the key to solve all problems.
"I have come out of the cave, join me" Sam Da Man's younger brother
Sam Da Man
Assistant
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 am
Location: Kealakekua

Unread postby Travis » Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:21 pm

Sam Da Man wrote:Its not that they are nuts. Its just that they are a people who are illiterate which makes them very susceptible to propaganda. Education is the key to solve all problems.


I was more or less reffering to the manipulative people who are in charge that are educated like Osama bin Laden.
"Be on your Guard, Stand Firm in the Faith, Be Men of Courage, Be Strong, Do everything in Love" - Master Lee's School Motto-

Formerly Schwarz Bruder/Taishi Ci
User avatar
Travis
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 am
Location: Master Lee's TKD School (LaFayette, Ga USA)

Question

Unread postby Xiao Gui » Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:44 pm

Taishi Ci wrote:I was more or less reffering to the manipulative people who are in charge that are educated like Osama bin Laden.

War is never neccessary. But to join a war to end it or for self defence is neccessary.
However, I am much troubled by the US's war of terrorism (oops I mean on terrorism)
I have just have few questions:
1. Does US celebrate remembrance day? I know Canada does...
2. Does US citizens know that US soldiers in Japan, for 30 years, have been causing lots of problems there? The most recent one would be 5 American soliders gang raped a 12 year old girl. Obviously, no legal action could be taken because US's international policy that no US citizens can be criminalized outside of US. This is still happening.
3. Bush is well educated too. Can he (and the US media) possibly be manipulating their citizens? All I know is that not many people like Bush outside of US. Especially those poor innocent people US had bombed and will be bombing.... :cry: Let's hope that they are dying for a 'greater' cause, a cause that is more precious then their life...
User avatar
Xiao Gui
Cannibalistic Kitten
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:40 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Question

Unread postby Sam Da Man » Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:55 pm

Xiao Gui wrote:
Taishi Ci wrote:I was more or less reffering to the manipulative people who are in charge that are educated like Osama bin Laden.

War is never neccessary. But to join a war to end it or for self defence is neccessary.
However, I am much troubled by the US's war of terrorism (oops I mean on terrorism)
I have just have few questions:
1. Does US celebrate remembrance day? I know Canada does...
2. Does US citizens know that US soldiers in Japan, for 30 years, have been causing lots of problems there? The most recent one would be 5 American soliders gang raped a 12 year old girl. Obviously, no legal action could be taken because US's international policy that no US citizens can be criminalized outside of US. This is still happening.
3. Bush is well educated too. Can he (and the US media) possibly be manipulating their citizens? All I know is that not many people like Bush outside of US. Especially those poor innocent people US had bombed and will be bombing.... :cry: Let's hope that they are dying for a 'greater' cause, a cause that is more precious then their life...


They have a memorial day and a veterans day.

Yes, sadly. This is somthing I have been hearing for along time. Action needs to be taken against these soldiers but at what risk. I am afraid that it will hurt relations between Japan and the US. Perhaps these people should be punished but secretly.

I don't like bush. He is too arrogant and pushy to take seriously(although I am a U.S. citizen). Afghanistan was necessary but Iraq should be allowed a way out. If they do not accept then it should be the responsibility of not only the US but the world to make them submit.

The rest of the major powers of the world(like China and many others) should have more of a hand in dealing with world affairs. The US should not have to be the only one doing such things.
"I have come out of the cave, join me" Sam Da Man's younger brother
Sam Da Man
Assistant
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 am
Location: Kealakekua

Next

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved

 
cron