Is any war 'Just'?

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Unread postby Travis » Sat Dec 28, 2002 6:41 pm

Mu Shu wrote:In the multi-cultural world we live in, the Bible cannot be the final say in what is just and what is unjust. What is just or unjust is more of a visceral human feeling determined not just by religion but also by other cultural factors, legal traditions, and even mass media. In fact the idea of justice has changed over time. The ancient Mesopotamians believed literally in "an eye for an eye". These days its more like "an eye for a large monetary settlement and possibly some jail time". What is just or unjust is very much a social phenonmenon and not a fixed law of nature.


Well all I have to say is "You can't please everybody." You have to have soemthing to believe in to base good and evil off of and I chose the Bible. :? Yes Justice has changed over time, but to please everyone on the just causes of war isn't feesable. Almost always the defenders will believe the attackers are unjust, and the Attackers will believe the defenders are unjust.
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Unread postby Rhiannon » Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:52 pm

Dictionary.com wrote:jus·tice n.
1. The quality of being just; fairness.

2a. The principle of moral rightness; equity.
2b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.

3a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
3b. Law. The administration and procedure of law.


How can any international war be Just, when there is no international standard of honor or law? There is no universal law, there are no universal morals. If a war was truly Just, it would not be fought, because universal Justice cannot war against itself.

A war may be Just to those fighting it, and to those that agree with them, but a war alone cannot ever be objectively Just. A just war is reduced to culturally just, nothing more.
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Unread postby Kid- » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:38 pm

No war is just. Either if it is a Crusade or a blood war.

The killing of humans is not needed. It is only an alternative option to a road towards fake peace.

Take the crusade for an example. The Holy War. King Richard spent all of the country's resources and spending on crusade after crusade. The fight for Jerusalem, The Holy City. Religion Against Religion. Isn't god against wars? Therefore even if there was not a god it would be wrong.

No war is just. The war against Iraq is about Greed And Survival.
The war against terroism is about Revenge, Hatred. The war against terroism didnt start until Sept 11, have you ever noticed.
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Unread postby Travis » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:14 pm

Kid- wrote:No war is just. Either if it is a Crusade or a blood war.

The killing of humans is not needed. It is only an alternative option to a road towards fake peace.

Take the crusade for an example. The Holy War. King Richard spent all of the country's resources and spending on crusade after crusade. The fight for Jerusalem, The Holy City. Religion Against Religion. Isn't god against wars? Therefore even if there was not a god it would be wrong.

No war is just. The war against Iraq is about Greed And Survival.
The war against terroism is about Revenge, Hatred. The war against terroism didnt start until Sept 11, have you ever noticed.


The first statement was utterly wrong. What about a war of defense? Was Poland right to fight Hitler Back? This was no Cursade or Blood War. Secondly God (the Judao-Christian God anyway) is not against a war to defend yourself or others. Infact, God has even helped begin wars to free his people, such as the story of David. The War on Terrorism is a war to defend ourselves against future attacks like 9/11. Iraq is in support of Terrorist and must be stopped, plain and simple.
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Unread postby Kid- » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:26 pm

But how do you know Iraq supports terroist.
Maybe they dont, and the News just say they do.

The news can lie about things and still be accepted as the truth.
Even if Iraq supports terroist

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Everyone has their own point of view on terroism.

To The muslim, they aren't the terroist.
To the christianity, judaism, catholics and others all muslims (i dont mean all but i mean basically every muslim) they are terroist.

I dont think there are any terroist in the world.
If there is to be a terroist, you will have to look at everyone's point of view
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Unread postby Travis » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:43 pm

Kid- wrote:But how do you know Iraq supports terroist.
Maybe they dont, and the News just say they do.

The news can lie about things and still be accepted as the truth.
Even if Iraq supports terroist

_______________________________________
[Atheist, Christianity, Judaism, and more]
Everyone has their own point of view on terroism.

To The muslim, they aren't the terroist.
To the christianity, judaism, catholics and others all muslims (i dont mean all but i mean basically every muslim) they are terroist.

I dont think there are any terroist in the world.
If there is to be a terroist, you will have to look at everyone's point of view


Iraq is supporting terrorist. Infact several countries reported the fact Iraq pays $25,000 to the families of Suicide bombers. Even Al Geezera pointed it out, which is nonbiased to the US or Iraq.


Next, being a terrorist isn't a mutual deal. Of course the guilty party always denies it. The fact that theses people put terror and fear on civilians gives them the name terrorist, so just because they say they aren't, means they aren't terrorist? I think not.
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Unread postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:30 am

Iraq pays $25,000 to the Palestinian families of those who have died in the conflict. It has paid over 2,000 people that way -- most of them from civilian deaths. That group happens to include suicide bomber's families. That is the terrorist money they talk about.

Terrorism is a point of view as well, as Kid pointed out. Terrorist tactics have been used by various peoples in various times in history, to try to achieve various political, social, or economic ends. It's nothing new and it's something even the US has participated in. Like spying, it is viewed evil only to those who suffer from it, and those who support those who suffer.

Terrorists do know they are terrorists, it's simply that they feel that their actions are justified.
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Unread postby Kid- » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:07 am

Thank You wild eyes...
You explained what i said much clearly.

Also
If i was a terroist and did terrible things i would not think i am a terroist. I would think I am a messenger of Allah and i have delievered Allah's message. I would then be a Holy Person for my doings.
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Unread postby Travis » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:29 am

Kid- wrote:Thank You wild eyes...
You explained what i said much clearly.

Also
If i was a terroist and did terrible things i would not think i am a terroist. I would think I am a messenger of Allah and i have delievered Allah's message. I would then be a Holy Person for my doings.


No, She said they would still be terrorist, but think they were right, read again.
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Unread postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:24 am

Taishi Ci wrote:No, She said they would still be terrorist, but think they were right, read again.


Kid still has a point, we're not in disagreement.

One of Osama's terrorists, say, believes he is a Holy Man. He knows what he is doing is terrorism, but it is justified because he is on a holy mission. Compare it to someone who steals, but does not think of it as bad because his child is starving; or kills someone, but finds it justified because that someone raped his wife. The person is aware of their "crime" and knows they are committing it, but the action is justified because of a specific reason.

Thus these jihad-terrorists believe that their crimes are actually not crimes, because they have holy justification. Common psychological justification of wrongdoing that has a thousand examples.
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