Is any war 'Just'?

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Unread postby Fan Kong » Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:11 am

Taishi Ci wrote:The colonized and enslaved often did it to themselves long before European powers interfered. They were no different that the rest of the world. I really do think US policy on campgain finiace has anythign to do with Just wars. :?

You are actually defending colonization? The difference before was that the conquerers were often of a similar race and would end up assimilating. Or in other instances like the Mongols, they would raise hell at first, than settle down and assimilate into the local population. The conquerers expected to remain in their new settlements, so they were moe inclined to keep the locals happy.

Colonization is a whole different story. European countries were controlling lands that were thousands of miles away. They did not give a rat ass about the locals of that land. They were continuously raped and plundered for hundreds of years. The Europeans that moved to the colonies did not plan to live the rest of their lives there........they simply came to become rich or fulfill a job and eventually go back to their home country.

And no campaign finance has nothing to do with this topic.....you expected me to prove my point........so I did.


Sam Da Man wrote:It must have been bad but for the sake of discussin america I will look at it from an americans viewpoint(which is their way of thinking and cannot be blamed.) They can be blamed from anothers viewpoint but in their eyes they did no wrong. The same could be said about Hitler. He thought that he did no wrong and in the eyes of his people they weren't doing wrong. As society develops barbaric ways are condemned and more civilized rules installed. That is the reason past societies cannot be blamed for what they have done. There are things done nowadays which will be considered barbaric in the future but we as a society don't know any better so we cannot be blamed.

They started a revolution because they felt they were being "oppressed" because they were being taxed w/o representation in England. They did not care if the people and lands they conquered had representation in their governemnt....is not that hypocritical?
Last edited by Fan Kong on Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Question

Unread postby James » Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:17 am

Xiao Gui wrote:2. Does US citizens know that US soldiers in Japan, for 30 years, have been causing lots of problems there? The most recent one would be 5 American soliders gang raped a 12 year old girl. Obviously, no legal action could be taken because US's international policy that no US citizens can be criminalized outside of US. This is still happening.

I am afraid this is simply humanity functioning as normal. Power and authority can corrupt, and obviously there will be occasional problems. The military does take action against their soldiers for things like this though.

We must not judge a large entity by the actions of the minority. Humanity corrupts, and United States soldiers will be no exception. This reminds me of the outcry in the United States against pesticides used by farmers to protect crops. University and Government studies have basically pointed out that in order for any adverse effects to come of eating fruits and vegetables that were treated with pesticides we would have to eat something like 10,000 oranges a day. Even if that estimate is padded in opposition of the environmentalists, it is obvious that 10 fruits or vegetables a day won’t harm us.

What am I saying? We have a tendency to take the occasional example of human corruption and hold it against the whole. This is not correct.

Xiao Gui wrote:3. Bush is well educated too. Can he (and the US media) possibly be manipulating their citizens? All I know is that not many people like Bush outside of US. Especially those poor innocent people US had bombed and will be bombing.... :cry: Let's hope that they are dying for a 'greater' cause, a cause that is more precious then their life...

Politics is manipulation; the two go hand in hand. In order to become a president of the United States you must be skilled at political manipulation and you must be wealthy. This is the same in most other countries, with the obvious exception of rulers that establish themselves because they have a larger gun and kill everyone that complains.

Civilians, women, children, innocents… we will be seeing a lot of these words in the upcoming war appearing in the same sentence as terrorists, unjust, murderers, hateful, etc. This is what war is.

You cannot march an army over a cornfield without trampling a few plants.

As much as a despise war, the nation of the United States must defend itself against aggressions and terrorism. This once again goes for all other nations. If someone bombed a major city in Canada you can bet the Canadian government would be calling for blood.

As a nation we cannot afford to sit back and ignore terrorist attacks on our nation. And if stopping the terrorism requires invading a nation that harbors the terrorists, or is known for terrorist activity and also possesses weapons of mass destruction, my answer is so be it. I do not need to click on a television to hear Bush talking about why the war is a good thing to believe this, in fact I have only seen Bush on television twice, and this was before the war against terrorism became an issue.
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Unread postby Fan Kong » Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:20 am

When was the last time there was a terrorist attack that can be blamed on Iraq?
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Unread postby James » Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:48 am

Fan Kong wrote:When was the last time there was a terrorist attack that can be blamed on Iraq?

I was speaking about multiple issues. The war against Iraq is different. Iraq is developing, or already owns, weapons of mass destruction, and they don’t have a history of playing nice (pardon my blunt speech). You don’t sit back and wait for a nation controlled by people who hate you to develop nuclear weapons. Combine that with reasons and views already mentioned.

Sometimes offense is the best defense.
Last edited by James on Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Justin » Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:54 am

James wrote:Sometimes defense is the best offense.

I think that should be offense is the best defense ;)
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Unread postby James » Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:01 am

Wan Hung Lo wrote:I think that should be offense is the best defense ;)

Haha. Oops, fixed it. Didn’t make much sense, did it?
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Unread postby Sam Da Man » Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:29 am

Well indiginous people (sometimes barbarians) have always been at odds with civilized peoples(or if you could call them civilized). I don't think the Gauls gave much thought when they sacked rome or the Xianbei when they ripped China apart. This is just a battle that has been going on since the begining of time. Only this time the civilized had the upper hand(I'm not saying that the native americans were in fact barbaric though). Imperialism was thought well back then and Indigenous people knew it was just a matter of time(I know because I am Hawaiian and my ancestors were slaughtered).
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Unread postby moshiman » Mon Dec 23, 2002 3:27 am

I think a war's just a bigger version of a fight. It's like a soccer game. The war-people pick sides, they switch sides, they play against each other...Except they don't use soccer-balls. They use us instead.

It's like when you have an enemy. You both get into a verbal fight, one of you pushes the other, and soon, there's a dust-cloud blocking out the bloody fight. A war is just a way to bring the government's matters into their country's hands.

It's plain sick. If they want to send nuclear explosions after each other, why don't they go to Antartica or to the North Pole where hardly anything exists (i'd feel sorry for the polar bears and escimos, though).

And if our government is saying "Lord help us" to God while the Iraqees are all like "Help us, Allah", who's "God" gonna choose to help? So now, basically, they're getting religion mixed into it. They can just push that "red button" at any moment and blow up the world! No need for the "apocolypse", since the U.S. and the Russians (the only two countries with the red button) created it.

There's never going to be "peace on earth" as our government wants if they're bombing the Middle East for a man they have no clue is dead or alive. Common sense isn't so common anymore, is it?
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Unread postby Travis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 3:43 am

moshiman wrote:I think a war's just a bigger version of a fight. It's like a soccer game. The war-people pick sides, they switch sides, they play against each other...Except they don't use soccer-balls. They use us instead.

It's like when you have an enemy. You both get into a verbal fight, one of you pushes the other, and soon, there's a dust-cloud blocking out the bloody fight. A war is just a way to bring the government's matters into their country's hands.

It's plain sick. If they want to send nuclear explosions after each other, why don't they go to Antartica or to the North Pole where hardly anything exists (i'd feel sorry for the polar bears and escimos, though).

And if our government is saying "Lord help us" to God while the Iraqees are all like "Help us, Allah", who's "God" gonna choose to help? So now, basically, they're getting religion mixed into it. They can just push that "red button" at any moment and blow up the world! No need for the "apocolypse", since the U.S. and the Russians (the only two countries with the red button) created it.

There's never going to be "peace on earth" as our government wants if they're bombing the Middle East for a man they have no clue is dead or alive. Common sense isn't so common anymore, is it?


The bolded portion made no sense? Why go to the North Pole and blow each other up? That would really accomplish nothing. And if your talking about a system where we fought each other there, that again would be immpossible. You can't get all the countries to Agree to fight there for starters, second some one would get mad and attack the ungaurded or weakened Home land.

Again Osama Bin Laden is very much alive. Infact they recieved at tape recently that the CIA approve dhas Osama's voice on it. The Tape was not altered, and the date was soemthing like November. Also we are not bombing specifically for Osama Bin Laden, In fact I believe we stopped bombing a short while ago, we were bombing terrorist camps and weapons facilities then anyway.

Lastly

The government may want peace, but they know it won't be achievable easily (or even in thier life time), or if it is at all possible.
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Unread postby moshiman » Mon Dec 23, 2002 5:02 am

You know, just to briefly go off-topic, has anyone seen that South Park episode about Santa Clause, Jesus, and Iraqees?

And, person, if ppl think going to the North Pole is useless, why bomb each other's homeland and everyone more pissed? If it's pointles, why do it in each other's countries?

Just to add to this, why is America so afraid of one terrorist attack? Ppl get bombed on a lot in places like Cambodia and Vietnam and other places...
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