Is any war 'Just'?

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Unread postby Mu Shu » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:31 am

Wild-Eyes wrote:
The US used Depleted Uranium bombs in Iraq during the Gulf war, causing birth defects and childhood death to this day (not to mention the power our economic sanctions hold over their lives).



Its estimated that over 940,000 depleted uranium munitions were used on Iraq during the Operation Desert Storm. That comes out to 300 tonnes of radioactive waste dropped on Iraq. The well known "Gulf War Syndrome" suffered by American soldiers who served in the war, might be due to this radioactive waste.

How can Washington conscientiously scold China for building a hydroelectric dam that produces non-poluting energy??? Meanwhile Washington is spraying Vietnam with toxic chemicals and Iraq with radioactive waste. Absolutely perverse!!!
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Unread postby Fan Kong » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:30 am

Taishi Ci wrote:The My Lai Massacre was instigated by Colonel. The Colonal was sentenced to life in prison on charges of murder. Appeals poured in and he was released. American soldiers never raped anyone during this, they killed 300 civillians. All the soldiers were told was to go in guns balzing, by a colonel, the soldiers thought they were killing the enemy, It was at night all and the Vietcong could be anyone. What ever history book or web site you read was propaganda. All ten of the websites I went to said this.

Funny, those books were only middle school level books found in an American High School. Funny why I saw pictures of women buttoning their shirts back up just before they were to be executed. If I remember correctly, the death toll for My Lai alone was arond 500. I spew propaganda, than I guess you must spew lies and cover-ups. Care to share those sites with us? I'm sure I can find many that will disagree. :D

The bombing of villages in Vietnam was not to strike terror. The Vietcong were taking these villages and hiding in them. The US did the best they could to not bomb villages that had civilians in them. But the Govt. cut thier resources and refused to let them do thier job to thier full extent, thus creating errors.

Resources were not cut from the Vietnam campaign until Nixon gave announced his "Vietnamization" campaign in 1969. The U.S. has been in Vietnam since 1954. You telling me the U.S. were peaceful moral liberators for 15 years?

Terrorism and Chemical warfare.... ha, Agent Oragne was a Herbicide (something to kill dense thickets of plants of Vietnam) that had adverse effects on US and Vietnamese forces. I would like to know where you got all these crazy Idea's from......

Funny, your little herbicide has caused thousands and thousands of babies to be born in Vietnam with major birth defects. See what kind of crazy ideas come into your head when you see the images of hundreds of orphans walking around with missing arms and legs or deformed heads.

Taishi Ci wrote:Did they intentionally spray this on innocent people? No. They were spraying it primarily around thier bases to set up a clear kill zone. Did they fly airplanes over Hanoi and and drop tanks of Agent Orange onto them? Hardly. The only civillian places that may have been affected would be if it was blown by the wind towards a village. Again, blame the government and war protestors for not allowing the soldiers to fight the war properly. Mistakes like these could have been avoided to a much greater degree if the proper time and effort was put into the war.

People in Vietnam live in villages. Villages are located around jungles. You spray jungles, you spray villages. No, they didn't spray Hanoi with Agent orange....they just bombed the hell out it.

The U.S. needed mor time? HAHA...name another U.S. war that has lasted as long as Vietnam.

Taishi Ci wrote:The US didn't find out about the adverse effects of Agent Orange until veterans of the Vietnam War came up with odd symptoms and a study was done about it. The US didn't have a clue about how devastating the chemical was going to be until. I don't know anything about the Three Gorges dam, so I can't say anything about it.

So you are telling me that the U.S. didn't bother to test the effects of Agent Orange before they unleased it on Vietnam? Pretty disgusting if you ask me.......and Bush wants to call Saddam and Osama evil. :roll:

Taishi Ci wrote:I can't debate 4 people at once. I concede here.
Eh....you're doing fine.......theres no time limit here. Take your time.
Last edited by Fan Kong on Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Kid- » Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:45 pm

[tashi ci wrote]Did they intentionally spray this on innocent people? No. They were spraying it primarily around thier bases to set up a clear kill zone. Did they fly airplanes over Hanoi and and drop tanks of Agent Orange onto them? Hardly. The only civillian places that may have been affected would be if it was blown by the wind towards a village. Again, blame the government and war protestors for not allowing the soldiers to fight the war properly. Mistakes like these could have been avoided to a much greater degree if the proper time and effort was put into the war.[/quote]

Well, even if they didn't spray the chemical on people it is still the American Military's fault.

Its like a person who does not want to kill a certain person, but accidently did it.

You know? [/quote]
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Unread postby Rhiannon » Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:22 am

I think Taishi Ci's point is that civilian casualities are a part of war, and cannot be labelled as terrorism. And I agree with that standpoint. It's when civilians are intentionally targetted that terrorism arises. And the US has supported and participated in that kind of action in the past, as well as having some questionable things (like Agent Orange) on the record as well.

I don't know much about Agent Orange, but the point is, intentionally using it on civilians would be terrorism, using it to clear brush without thought to effect is just stupid. :) The effects would still be the fault of the US Military, but it wouldn't be counted as terrorism.

Is terrorism as a method of war "just" then, because it's justifiable?
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Unread postby Fan Kong » Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:51 am

Ask the Palestinians if they are fighting a war. If Bush wants to call them terrorists, than thats his opinion.

Terrorism is Terrorism whether done by an official country or by a group of people. A country terrorizing people is not terrorism? But a group of people who terrorize people is considered terrorism? Sounds pretty absurd to me.
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Unread postby Rhiannon » Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:17 am

Fan Kong wrote:Ask the Palestinians if they are fighting a war. If Bush wants to call them terrorists, than thats his opinion.

Terrorism is Terrorism whether done by an official country or by a group of people. A country terrorizing people is not terrorism? But a group of people who terrorize people is considered terrorism? Sounds pretty absurd to me.


Heh, yes. In my opinion, Israel-Palestine is like a minature version of the US and the world. Palestine uses terrorism, is labelled as the bad guy and a terrorist; Israel uses terrorism and breaks international laws, and is labelled as the good guy with their war "tactics" and law breaking ignored.

My opinion is, every country uses terrorism; it just depends on what side your on to actually hear who is accused of doing it. (Well, excluding neutral nations. :lol: )
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Unread postby Fan Kong » Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:20 pm

Wild-Eyes wrote: Heh, yes. In my opinion, Israel-Palestine is like a minature version of the US and the world. Palestine uses terrorism, is labelled as the bad guy and a terrorist; Israel uses terrorism and breaks international laws, and is labelled as the good guy with their war "tactics" and law breaking ignored.

My opinion is, every country uses terrorism; it just depends on what side your on to actually hear who is accused of doing it. (Well, excluding neutral nations. :lol: )

Heh, can't argue with you there. :D
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Unread postby Foif » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:49 pm

Although it might seem necessary at times, I dont think wars can be classified as "Just". Most of the time, the people are harmed more than benefited, not to mention that years ago it was only for land and money.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:53 pm

The Dalai Lama once said that one that spills blood in order to promote an ideal does nothing but pervet it, no matter how noble the ideal was in the first place.

War is a form of violence and violence only calls for more violence. So, in the end, I dont think that any war can be ''just''.
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Unread postby dwonline » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:26 am

hmm, no, war is pretty much never justified, especially nowadays when the world runs on money and everyone in power has their own self serving agenda...

300 tonnes of Uranium is not gonna be that large in volume, ya know?

could probably fit it in a few trucks, even though the wheels would pop off.

I expect all the tanks in Iraq would have more uranium than that in their total ammunition now, just sitting around waiting to be fired at the RPG militia...
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