Abortion

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Is it ok or not?

Yes
72
49%
No
55
37%
Other (please explain)
21
14%
 
Total votes : 148

Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:26 pm

LKS wrote:it raises the question Kong about freedom , i dont remember the quote or the person who said it but something along the lines that there is no freedom without laws.

No one's talking about anything to do with "freedom without laws." Just because abortion is legal doesn't mean people can do it in their living rooms with over-the-counter abortion kits. It's a regulated procedure, performed by trained professionals, and it costs money.

LKS wrote:Now the way i see it is that by saying that we have a right to do anything to our bodies that opens up justification for the use of drugs as they should be allowed as its our right to mess with the chemicals in our bodies as its our bodies. That was the point i was making , nothing to do with weaninig people off addictions just the point that its our bodies and lets mess with them.

And my point is that having a legal abortion isn't a logical analogue to "messing with our bodies."

I find that a lot of "slippery slope" paranoids have a problem with stringing together loosely connected ideas. Hey, beware the danger, if people start converting to Christianity, they'll all be burning people at the stake in no time!

LKS wrote:Society is a falling thing and is collapsing due to liberalist thinking , people are too free and it is become anarchtic

Hahaha, I don't even think I can go near this ridiculous drivel, other than to say that society's still here, doing fine, and far from anarchy.
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Unread postby JCC » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:32 pm

LKS wrote:i dont think anyone can have honest intentions and want an abortion , what i will say is that i can sympathyse with those who want an abortion for reasons that are understandable such as rape cases and cannot afford the child.

How about those who aren't consenting to the harm the fetus is doing to their bodies? Should they just be required to let it?

But yea why not? Society is a falling thing and is collapsing due to liberalist thinking , people are too free and it is become anarchtic , people need shepherding , controlling and discipline to bring the best out of them . This should be done under a wise and justified being such as the papacy or a good goverment .

That's... crazy. People have rights, by virtue of the fact that they're people. The sort of government you describe, one intent on "controlling" and "shepherding", would trample all over those rights, even moreso than the governments in power currently.
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Unread postby LKS » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:32 pm

Heck when it comes down to the Kong i stick to my beliefs and you will stick to yours , Abortion seems to be something that is rooted in both our opinions and is not gonna move.

I have shown my opinions here and tried to debate them to the best of my ability as a scholar that is all. IF you find them interesting or if they have raised any questions or issues over the subject that you had not previously thought of then great if not then it does not matter.

The fact is i have done what i could to bring another side and thats all i can do. Abortions in both the UK and the USA are legal and that is enough for you guys , if you dont fear any after death hell or if you dont have any catholic beliefs then go for it im not gonna picket and kill anyone who does.
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Unread postby Antiochus » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:37 pm

LKS wrote:Society is a falling thing and is collapsing due to liberalist thinking , people are too free and it is become anarchtic , people need shepherding , controlling and discipline to bring the best out of them . This should be done under a wise and justified being such as the papacy or a good goverment .


So, we should never elect a liberal kind of government because they will tend to support abortion?

But if what you say is true, lets find ourselves a nice dictator or despot to lead us and decide what is good for us in our lives.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:38 pm

I'm not debating the moral rightness or wrongness of abortions, just the fact that they should be legal and available for those who need them.

Don't worry LKS, I respect your right to have an opinion about these issues. Given that I am a devout practising Christian, you haven't done much to raise new questions I haven't thought about before. I have these beliefs precisely because I have thought about them at length. Part of the purpose of my participation in this thread is to encourage you to do the same. Beliefs that are dictated by some centralized higher authority aren't beliefs at all.
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Unread postby LKS » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:43 pm

"it is better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven" the devil said that and i aint the devil so i think ill stick to serving , if the pope says something is law then im subserviant to it . He is of course in my belief the one who is leading me to heaven so ill sacrifice my free thought for that , but thanks anyways.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:47 pm

Well, I'm not going to debate religion with you, since that's not what this fine thread is for. It's what this fine thread is for. ;)
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Unread postby Kristina » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:22 pm

LKS wrote:Society is a falling thing and is collapsing due to liberalist thinking , people are too free and it is become anarchtic , people need shepherding , controlling and discipline to bring the best out of them . This should be done under a wise and justified being such as the papacy or a good goverment .


I know this is off topic, but I'll risk a spam warning to ask you this question:

If people need sheparding, what about the people in the government? What about the shepards? The flock, as you seem to want in society, is taken care of, sure. But what about those that are controlling things. . .Those people would still be products of the same sinful society. I completely disagree with you that people need control to bring out the best in them. Some people thrive in structure, others fall apart.

Would you really rather have a self-centered government decide for you what you need? Hell, even in America freedom is limited. Do you want to take even more of that away?


And now on topic: Kong Wen said this
I'm not debating the moral rightness or wrongness of abortions, just the fact that they should be legal and available for those who need them.


He's right there. This isn't about whether or not it's right; that's easy to decide for yourself. What's hard is to take all your ideals and morals out of it and decide if people should be allowed to do this, and not base it on your religious beliefs. I've said this before, put yourself in their, our, position.


I dont think anyone can have honest intentions and want an abortion , what i will say is that i can sympathyse with those who want an abortion for reasons that are understandable such as rape cases and cannot afford the child.


You're contradicting yourself. You're saying that you don't think there's honest intentions, but you sympathasize wiht them.

True, adoption is always possible. . .but there's no guarantee that the child would be any better off. There's teh mental issues with finding out that they were adopted, and the fact that no matter how furious and minute a screening process is, you can never really know what a person is thinking. A screening process for adoption can't see through to a person's heart to see if they have the childs best interests in mind.

Listen to "What it's Like" by Everlast.

Are you against taking the "day after" pill as well?
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Unread postby Lexus Fiend » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:26 pm

LKS wrote:Heck if you dont want to hear the cold truth , the opinions of a large group of people who are anti abortion , then dont join the discussion. Its simple ive never said someones name and called them a bad person , but if your felling guilt or something maybe you should talk to a loved one.


And who the hell are you? Who the f••• do you think you are?

How absolutely conceited of you to think whatever you say is the "cold truth", give me a fucking break.

[Lady Wu edit: Flame warning. Please see your PM box. (04/16/2007)]
Last edited by Lexus Fiend on Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Jason » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:33 pm

LKS, please never agree with me again. If I have to spend any segment of my life knowing I share an opinion with such a pompous ass, I don't know what I'd do.

[Kong Edit: Flame Warning, see PM.]
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