A different kind of political quiz (not only for Americans)

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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:50 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:There wasn't really an answer that suited my feelings towards trust/distrust of government

I got Yankeedom like Sun Fin. I'm wondering if most of England would get that


Possibly. And that also possibly for historical reasons. New England retained its close ties with England well after the American Revolution, and there is a similar utopian streak that appears in the various strains of English Whiggism, the same as in New England small-r republicanism.

Shikanosuke wrote:The Midlands [...]

What I got, though I felt the answers not expansive enough.


Interesting, indeed. This makes some sense, though I get the feeling our slightly state-sceptical communitarianisms manifest in slightly different ways. Slightly. :P
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:53 am

WeiWenDi wrote:Thanks for posting that, Zyzyfer! I haven't read Woodard's book yet, just the dust jacket and the online teasers, so it's good to get the brief descriptions of all the different regions.


Yeah, I found it interesting myself. I had never been introduced to this "Eleven Nations" concept.

I was somewhat surprised, though, that Zyzyfer ended up in New Netherlands...


Really? I don't exactly expound upon my political beliefs and what not on here - I lack the broader knowledge of politics *and eloquence of prose that posters like yourself and Shikanosuke possess to really compete in the Current Affairs arena under normal circumstances - so I'm a bit surprised that I've nevertheless made a footprint in regards to where my political compass lies.

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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby Bush Leagues » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:44 am

WeiWenDi wrote:So, let me get this straight.

Sun Fin seems to be okay with me, but not with Bush Leagues. Likewise, Bush Leagues, I seem to be fine with you, but you don't like me all that much. But we both don't like Sun Fin. However, if someone from the Deep South showed up, both me and Sun Fin would be rivals with them, but Bush Leagues wouldn't have any problems with them. And everything would be a total clusterf**k.


This sort of mass generalization of individuals reminds me of this one time I was with a friend.

I had brought over to my friend Mark's place a video game I really liked, Ace Combat: Zero. It's a game where you fly a fighter jet in a war. One of the features of the game was an "Ace Style" that kind of measured how you play and rated you as either a "mercenary" (someone who's in it just for money - oh yeah, you play as a mercenary pilot), "soldier" (someone who read the way a battle was going and reacted accordingly), or "knight" (someone who acted honorably, even in battle). In the opening cutscene, there's a guy talking about how there are "three different kinds of aces".

Solo Wing Pixy wrote:Did you know...there are three different kinds of aces? Those who seek strength, those who live for pride, and those who can read the tide of battle."


At this, my friend, who had never seen this game before, jumps in: "You forgot the kind that thinks they can group everybody into meaningless bulls**t." :lol:

Zyzyfer wrote:Yeah, I found it interesting myself. I had never been introduced to this "Eleven Nations" concept.


I remember watching an anime (best source of political stuff, everyone knows that), set in Victorian England where one of the main characters (William) mentions he has someone he wants to marry. His father asks him if she's "lives in this country" or something like that. After William mentions "she's not a foreigner", he replies that "England is one nation, but has two countries." I forget the rest, but it essentially amounts to "there's the commoners and there's the gentry". He was expressing his opinion that, as he (and his son) are members of the gentry, he should restrict himself to within that "country".

Just a different take on nations within nations. :D
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:21 pm

Bush Leagues wrote:
WeiWenDi wrote:So, let me get this straight.

Sun Fin seems to be okay with me, but not with Bush Leagues. Likewise, Bush Leagues, I seem to be fine with you, but you don't like me all that much. But we both don't like Sun Fin. However, if someone from the Deep South showed up, both me and Sun Fin would be rivals with them, but Bush Leagues wouldn't have any problems with them. And everything would be a total clusterf**k.


This sort of mass generalization of individuals reminds me of this one time I was with a friend.

I had brought over to my friend Mark's place a video game I really liked, Ace Combat: Zero. It's a game where you fly a fighter jet in a war. One of the features of the game was an "Ace Style" that kind of measured how you play and rated you as either a "mercenary" (someone who's in it just for money - oh yeah, you play as a mercenary pilot), "soldier" (someone who read the way a battle was going and reacted accordingly), or "knight" (someone who acted honorably, even in battle). In the opening cutscene, there's a guy talking about how there are "three different kinds of aces".

Solo Wing Pixy wrote:Did you know...there are three different kinds of aces? Those who seek strength, those who live for pride, and those who can read the tide of battle."


At this, my friend, who had never seen this game before, jumps in: "You forgot the kind that thinks they can group everybody into meaningless bulls**t." :lol:


Uhmmm... before we go any further, Bush Leagues, you do realise that I was being completely tongue-in-cheek there, yes? Just checking...

Because, for what it's worth, I agree with you here. Despite it making for fun internet quizzes, I don't really buy into the Woodard thesis precisely for this reason. Yes, there are cultural differences between regions in America, but a.) I don't think they are insurmountable or incommensurable with each other, and b.) nowadays all of them tend to be covered in a thick layer of vulgar pop-culture detritus anyway (which is a whole 'nother problem). That said, I'm all in favour of preserving local cultures and local folkways as long as they don't divide people from each other.

Bush Leagues wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:Yeah, I found it interesting myself. I had never been introduced to this "Eleven Nations" concept.


I remember watching an anime (best source of political stuff, everyone knows that), set in Victorian England where one of the main characters (William) mentions he has someone he wants to marry. His father asks him if she's "lives in this country" or something like that. After William mentions "she's not a foreigner", he replies that "England is one nation, but has two countries." I forget the rest, but it essentially amounts to "there's the commoners and there's the gentry". He was expressing his opinion that, as he (and his son) are members of the gentry, he should restrict himself to within that "country".

Just a different take on nations within nations. :D


The 'two nations' idea actually comes from the novel Sybil, written by British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli. And he was actually using the idea to make the exact opposite point: that England's economic parties were creating two entirely different nations within the British nation, and that this state of affairs couldn't last. Which is one of the reasons why he ended up propounding the idea of 'one nation conservatism'.
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby Bush Leagues » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:39 am

WeiWenDi wrote:Uhmmm... before we go any further, Bush Leagues, you do realise that I was being completely tongue-in-cheek there, yes? Just checking...


Yeah, I realized. I didn't mean to come off as super-serious. I'm normally very easy-going, so you can assume I mean things in a lighthearted way. :D

WeiWenDi wrote:Because, for what it's worth, I agree with you here. Despite it making for fun internet quizzes, I don't really buy into the Woodard thesis precisely for this reason. Yes, there are cultural differences between regions in America, but a.) I don't think they are insurmountable or incommensurable with each other, and b.) nowadays all of them tend to be covered in a thick layer of vulgar pop-culture detritus anyway (which is a whole 'nother problem). That said, I'm all in favour of preserving local cultures and local folkways as long as they don't divide people from each other.


I basically agree with this. I really like the particular history of the region (Acadiana) I live in, actually. We're a really diverse mix around here.
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby Boydie » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:58 am

I got Left Coast. Which is funny to me because I would say views are slightly to the right in UK politics, but in the USA its viewed as to the left. :lol:
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:29 am

Interesting that you are our first Brit to not get Yankeedom Boydie!
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:13 am

I'm currently reading Colin Woodard's book. Again, his take on history is somewhat square-pegged into his cultural rubric, which makes things somewhat difficult to parse, but I can definitely see how my own politics have started to align here.

According to Woodard, during the American Revolution, the three 'nations' or cultural blocs to lean heavily to the rebel side of the argument were Yankeedom, Tidewater and the Deep South; the two blocs that leaned heavily to the loyalist side were New Netherland and Midlands. The New Netherlanders were concerned primarily that rebellion would be bad for business, and that a distant king was to be preferred to the busybodies of New England. The German, Anabaptist and Quaker Midlanders were much more idealistic; they wanted to see a peaceful solution and to stay neutral in the fighting, and if they had to pick a side they'd pick the side that wasn't actively making trouble for them. In addition, the Quakers felt they owed the Crown a debt of honour for giving them a colonial charter in the first place.

So I can definitely see how my own peacenik and government-sceptical attitudes on matters of security mesh with a support for loyalism to the British crown.

(I also find I have a decreasing tolerance for preening pharisees, Hollywood activists, teetotallers, ideological vegans, feminist scolds and nags, neocon and liberal crusaders, Twitter social-justice warriors, and other such killjoys - but I'm equally turned off by redneck violence, tribal politics, climate change denial, Confederate flag-waving and general libertarian dumbassery.)

What I don't get is how the Brits on here manage to sympathise so strongly with their former greatest enemies. Have we ungrateful colonials really been that bad an influence on you?
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:45 pm

What I don't get is how the Brits on here manage to sympathise so strongly with their former greatest enemies. Have we ungrateful colonials really been that bad an influence on you?


It depends how he adjudges a typical Yankeedom overall or just happens our very different political culture to most America (bar some areas) just means we fall into it by near default.

In terms on if US has had a influence on UK, certainly yes. We see ourselves far closer to the US then to Europe and we have that "special relationship"/our creepy creepy obsession. US has political glamour, shared history, shared language, we tend to follow America on foreign policy, US gets in the news. Plus we get a lot of your TV and films, that helps
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Re: A different kind of political quiz (not only for America

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:39 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:It depends how he adjudges a typical Yankeedom overall or just happens our very different political culture to most America (bar some areas) just means we fall into it by near default.

In terms on if US has had a influence on UK, certainly yes. We see ourselves far closer to the US then to Europe and we have that "special relationship"/our creepy creepy obsession. US has political glamour, shared history, shared language, we tend to follow America on foreign policy, US gets in the news. Plus we get a lot of your TV and films, that helps


Okay, that makes some sense. I would still have thought modern British values, even though different from American ones, would be more similar to the tolerant, local-communitarian and pacifistic ideals of the Mid-Atlantic, Deep Midwest and Upper Canada, but maybe that's just my romantic loyalism talking.

Well, the characteristics of Yankeedom Woodard describes are essentially those outlined in the political quiz: high trust in government, a fondness for social engineering, a commitment to participatory democratic norms, self-discipline (thrift, sexual continence, sobriety, piety) which benefits the common good, strong belief in cultural conformity and a willingness to 'spread the Gospel' (whatever that is, not necessarily religious) and remake the world in its own image. My mother's side of the family are all dyed-in-the-wool Vermont Yankees, and I have a very high respect for them. They have a very strong community ethic which I deeply appreciate, but after being in China it was - whoa, okay, this is definitely a different world.

But with regard to our TV and films - the vast majority of those come out of Hollywood. The Western seaboard is pretty similar to Yankeedom but also has some significant differences. West Coasters tend to be more celebratory of cultural diversity, for example.
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