Scotland Indepdence debate

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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:52 pm

Boydie wrote:Point taken. I personally think if Gordon Brown had led Better Together from the beginning, the final result wouldn’t have been so tight. When nerves were frayed and the Nats on the rise he emerged as if from nowhere to inject the passion, coherence and vision we so badly needed. His speech last Wednesday will stand as one of the greatest any Scotsman has ever delivered.

I’m not discrediting Alistair Darling, he did do a brilliant job. He played his part by laying down the facts, defending his corner and was able to attack the Yes campaign. I personally though he wasn’t as good a speaker as Salmond and wasn’t able to arouse voters the way Salmond or Brown were able to do.


I think Brown was too poisonous and too divisive to lead the camapign while his flaws as PM might have returned to hinder the camapign. Darling had enough trouble getting cooperation and aid from the three parties, Brown would have found it nearly impossible. I think Brown was best used as the passion champion, maybe as a super-sub for the last 6 months. Leaving him benched and not listened to till last five minutes on the other hand...

I have to disagree DZ, Scotland isn’t the anti Tory wasteland the Nats have painted it to be. It’s a huge opportunity for Ruth Davidson's Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party....


They have a small core but only one MP and things were so bad, Davidson's main rival for leadership proposed dissolving the party and making a new one to and deal with how toxic the Tories are. So that is why I felt that but intresting to hear a more positive analysis
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:53 am

Oh dear, accusations of vote rigging has led to an online petition with three videos spreading around. If this allegation takes hold then Scotland will be divided all over again and an evil conspiracy will be the narrative in some minds
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:46 am

Do we know whether it was yes or no votes that were rigged?
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:02 pm

The allegations are that yes votes were converted into no votes and no votes faked up. So that Yes got screwed. Which as I said, is a dangerous allegation to have floating around in peoples heads.
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Boydie » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:30 pm

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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:50 pm

Ah but the counting officer is in league with the Illumaniti to deny Scotland :wink: In truth, I doubt the conspiracy will be remotely believed by most people but still frustrating
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Aygor » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:02 am

While the Kingdom remain United I think that the result is not entirely positive as ~45% of the electorate wants independence and (that's what I hear but I might be wrong) most among the 16-18 years old wanted out of the union.
I am positive that the issue is just postponed for one or to generation.
I also think that devolution only helps increasing the problem in the long run, although London can't turn back on her promises now.
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Boydie » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:32 pm

Aygor wrote:While the Kingdom remain United I think that the result is not entirely positive as ~45% of the electorate wants independence and (that's what I hear but I might be wrong) most among the 16-18 years old wanted out of the union.
I am positive that the issue is just postponed for one or to generation.
I also think that devolution only helps increasing the problem in the long run, although London can't turn back on her promises now.


I know the poll you're referring too, turns out that poll was highly inaccurate. Votes for younger voters was tight from the looks of it, but NO edged it.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/referendum-survey-suggests-a-slender-majority-of-young-people-voted-no.25407723
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:16 pm

SNP finished their conference in Perth so felt a time to have another look at the state of things.

At the moment, from the outside, it doesn't seem good for us unionists. The most effective leader is only going to be able to build up Tories and clean up legacy before she can hope to rival the SNP but at least seems to be building the party up. The biggest unionist party seems in a bad way, slammed by former leaders, accused of being a puppet to Westminster and is seeking a new leader in what may yet be bloody contest. The Westminster consensus is SNP will gut Labour in 2015 general election and make SNP a potential player in Westminster

Meanwhile the SNP has responded to their dream being voted out by the electorate by boosting their numbers, high morale, putting eyes on Westminster, a easy change of leader. On the sadder side, making statements about Labour and their independence defeat that would shame a 5 year old as lacking maturity. After the initial "dream died for a generation bar EU referendum", it now seems like the SNP and it's members believe another referendum will come sooner and, lessons learned+Westminster disappointing the wavering union voters, they will win.

Momentum is seemingly (always possible they are in for a shock in next few leaders) with the nationalists and unionists need Labour and Westminster to sort itself out sooner rather then later, but if referendum is called too early or the years are filled with "neverendum", the voters may get annoyed and turn against the cause.
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Re: Scotland Indepdence debate

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:40 pm

So with polls predicting that SNP will win 35-45 seats in Scotland, pretty much killing Labour's stronghold, and pundits saying numbers would only be a little smaller then that, SNP could be the third biggest party in Westminster. This is playing into the election, Labour having to respond while Tories try to torch the union, warning that poor England would soon be controlled by evil Scotland as Salmond would dominate Labour behind the scenes.

So my question is that if SNP is third largest party, what should the big parties do? Seek to reach a deal as that is the democratic will of the people who handed them this? Refuse to work with any non-unionist party? If SNP upheld a government, how would England react to fate being decided by the votes of a few million Scots? If the parties reject the SNP, how would Scotland react? How will Scotland react to the Tories current election tactics?
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