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Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby epaminondas146871 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:05 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8af0QPhJ22s

This video isn't strictly related to legalization, but is relevant with regards to the "Drug War."
Thoughts?
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Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:23 pm

My thoughts are "F*** the police." They by and large abuse their power. When I tried to commit suicide, they bashed me in the back of the head with a cast iron chair because they thought I was dangerous (they were f***ing DEE DEE DEE). Ignorant pieces of garbage, that is what most cops are. I despise cops with every fiber of my being. Cops like the ones in that video I honestly don't think deserve to live. Preying on the weak and innocent is cowardly and absolutely pure unmitigated evil. Those cops should be the ones facing prison time, not that completely innocent kid. I would seriously question the sanity and intelligence of anyone who would side with the cops with regards to what is happening there. I'm ashamed to be an American.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:07 pm

epaminondas146871 wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8af0QPhJ22s

This video isn't strictly related to legalization, but is relevant with regards to the "Drug War."
Thoughts?


When you linked the article I was suspecting something unlawful. After viewing it I have to say I find their allocation of resources wasteful, and their choice of target sort of repugnant, but ultimately I can't really fault them if that is their job (note if.

Selling drugs in most states is illegal, especially on campuses, and especially to minors. Do I think this was warranted ? Not really. Did the kid break the law? Yes. Was it entrapment ? I need to know more.




DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:My thoughts are "F*** the police."



That isn't a mature response, especially towards people you rely on.

They by and large abuse their power.


Source ? We have a huge police force(s) in America. If you're going to make a sweeping statement like that you'll need to show more than personal anecdotes and YouTube blurbs. A lot more.

Ignorant pieces of garbage, that is what most cops are.


Source ? Many of the officers I know have college degrees, are proficient, involved ok the community, and have families. If you're going to maliciously malign entire populations by profession at least come prepared.

despise cops with every fiber of my being.


I'm sorry to hear that. Hate seems to consume you often.

Cops like the ones in that video I honestly don't think deserve to live.


A) because ? From what I read the kid is a minor and got probation. He didn't take the kids life or ruin his life. Asking for the officer to forfeit his life for executing his job (regardless of whether we agree with it ) is wildly disproportionate and illogical.
B) you seem to be quick to cheapen and judge the weight of a human life. Perhaps you should consider your words when dealing with such a serious topic as death and execution.

Preying on the weak and innocent is cowardly and absolutely pure unmitigated evil.


I agree they preying on vulnerable populations isn't honorable. I also believe this was a waste of time. However, lets not treat the kid like he's an invalid. He sold illegal narcotics. Innocuous as I think his actions were they were illegal and against school policy. He knew that I bet. Being challenged doesn't make you immune to the law.



Those cops should be the ones facing prison time, not that completely innocent kid.


Unless this minor was entrapped into committing a crime he isn't innocent.

I would seriously question the sanity and intelligence of anyone who would side with the cops with regards to what is happening there.


It's unfortunate if this is true. If you can't imagine there being another viewpoint then that's on you.


I'm ashamed to be an American.


I'm not. One police departments operation doesn't malign the image of my nations moral character.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:27 pm

It was entrapment, which is illegal. I've seen way too many stories about cops abusing their power. There was the time a cop shot a cat with a crossbow just for being in his garden. There was what a half dozen cops did to me (and DO NOT dismiss my experience as "anecdotal" as if it's invalid information or evidence or we WILL have a problem here regardless of how high I get). There's this case of cops abusing their power to entrap an otherwise innocent person. There was Rodney King. If I took about an hour, I could link you to dozens of stories of stuff like this happening. If I took a day, hundreds of stories. I'm not going to do that because I'm not interested in convincing you on this. My personal experience has made me hate and despise and rage against cops for the rest of my life. DO NOT diminish my pain, you have no right to. When I see stuff like this, it makes me want to push a button that would eradicate the lives of everyone like that. Meanwhile, chavs like Lindsay Lohan can actually do infinitely worse and get a slap on the wrist with little to no punishment just because she has money. I'm ashamed to be an American because of all of this. It's a highly personal issue for me, and I couldn't care less how mature you think I am. I despise these people because they're making the world a worse place to live rather than a better place to live. Cops have never once in my entire life done anything to help me. When I lived in a trailer back in Pontiac and the neighbor across the street played music at such a volume for bass that I could feel it when I was in bed, I'd call the cops and report them. Turns out my neighbor was friends with a cop and never got more than a "just turn it down". NOTHING, and this was multiple times per week, and only if their friend didn't call them to turn it down before the cops showed up! Do you have any idea what it is like to have people with such authority abuse it and make your life hell?! DIDN'T THINK SO.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:29 pm

Actually, f••• it, I'm out of here. No more translation, no more discussion. I've had it. I'm done. Screw you, Shik. Looks like you finally win. I'm gone. Hope you're happy with yourself. Have a nice life, jerk.

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Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:54 pm

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:It was entrapment, which is illegal.


This is a legal conclusion, without any legal argument. Asking a normally law abiding person to commit a crime, without more, is not likely to unduly induce a normally law abiding citizen to commit a crime they otherwise would not.

Operating purely on the facts we have before us we know the officer posed as a civilian youth, asked for a joint, and was later given more than 1. That's it. That alone isn't undue pressure or entrapment.


I've seen way too many stories about cops abusing their power. There was the time a cop shot a cat with a crossbow just for being in his garden.


So you've seen stories about some cops ( in a nation with a vast population) abusing their power so you therefore conclude that 'by and large all cops abuse their power'? Not how it works and not a source for such a sweeping claim.

There was what a half dozen cops did to me (and DO NOT dismiss my experience as "anecdotal" as if it's invalid information or evidence or we WILL have a problem here regardless of how high I get).


I'm sorry you have had a bad experience with a police officer(s). But it is not data or a source, it is literally the definition of an anecdote. It proves nothing other than you had a bad experience with a police officer(s) and it certainly doesn't support the assertion that nearly all other police officers are largely 'ignorant pieces of garbage'.

As for your comment about 'having a problem' I'll just ignore that. Threats (if that's what it was, don't really know) don't carry very far on the interweb.



There's this case of cops abusing their power to entrap an otherwise innocent person.


If you're referring to the case before us I've seen no abuse of power. Furthermore you keep saying this minor is 'innocent' of the crime he is charged but have provided no proof of that.


There was Rodney King.


There was. And more like him no doubt. Alone these are individual cases, not proof of 'nearly all' police officers as you asset so broadly. Consider the numbers you're speaking about.


If I took about an hour, I could link you to dozens of stories of stuff like this happening. If I took a day, hundreds of stories. I'm not going to do that because I'm not interested in convincing you on this.

You could. And without data individual stories are just that (and on the Internet many are not even reliable)...stories. Cases. Not indicative of overall behavior.


My personal experience has made me hate and despise and rage against cops for the rest of my life.


I'm sorry that your personal negative experiences with cops has forced you to irrationally adopt a carte Blanche hatred of all policemen (regardless of their guilt or innocence).

DO NOT diminish my pain, you have no right to.


I haven't diminished or even addressed your pain (other than to apologize for any you've endured). I have put your personal anecdote into perspective when making sweeping and unsupported generalizations (something you've done ad nauseum since you've arrived).



When I see stuff like this, it makes me want to push a button that would eradicate the lives of everyone like that.


Well, thats rather irrational, illogical, and borderline psychotic. Have fun with that, but I suggest controlling aggressive impulses when something displeases you.

It's a highly personal issue for me, and I couldn't care less how mature you think I am.


I didn't say you had to care at all, but the position remains immature.

I despise these people because they're making the world a worse place to live rather than a better place to live.


I would suggest mass slaughter of people would also make the world a worse place.


Cops have never once in my entire life done anything to help me.


I believe that's fairly short sighted. Without police officers you'd be largely defenseless and without order.

Do you have any idea what it is like to have people with such authority abuse it and make your life hell?! DIDN'T THINK SO.


Do I have an understanding that the world is complicated and cops won't solve all your issues ? Yes. They wouldn't make someone turn down their music and you heard they were friends with cops? Corrupt! Every last one of them. Off with their heads!!


DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:Actually, f••• it, I'm out of here. No more translation, no more discussion. I've had it. I'm done. Screw you, Shik.


To be fair you 'exited' earlier but returned. But again, this seems to pass for mature discourse.

Looks like you finally win. I'm gone. Hope you're happy with yourself. Have a nice life, jerk.


There was nothing to win, wasn't a game. I hope you gained something from your time here.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby Jordan » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:46 am

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:Actually, f••• it, I'm out of here. No more translation, no more discussion. I've had it. I'm done. Screw you, Shik. Looks like you finally win. I'm gone. Hope you're happy with yourself. Have a nice life, jerk.


Why bother discussing in current affairs if the topics aggravate you so much? This forum is actually mostly a 3k forum with a current affairs board tacked on. It is not like you need to respond to the topics in current affairs. The board is here for people to discuss political issues if they desire. The nature of political issues is that not everybody is going to be in agreement with your own political stances. That is the nature of the world. Also, people are not "jerks" just because they disagree with you on a political issue or several or decide to argue the opposite view. That is narrowminded. However, supposing you do feel so strongly about political issues that it makes you rage every time somebody disagrees with you, I do not understand why you keep coming back to this particular board on the forum to post. You could easily just ignore this particular board and just post on the rest of the forum. You could then find some other forum with an overall political bent that is more to your liking. The Internet is pretty large, but if you dislike the diversity of opinions on it, there are always shelters of people who share your exact viewpoints out there.

As for cops, I feel like Shikanosuke is inherently right on the issue. Cops help you just by existing. If there were not public stewards of law and order, there would be widespread chaos. Without "the gaze" of cops on them, people would have no fear to keep them in check from committing all manner of crimes. I know what it is like to have asshole neighbors who get away with a lot of bullshit, but the situation would be even worse without cops. Our neighbors may get away with shooting off fireworks illegally (especially around this particular time of the year), they may listen to loud music and be generally obnoxious. However, without cops they'd probably be outright committing serious crimes. One time I remember one of my neighbors' friends got drunk, got in a car and hit practically every car on the street like it was a pinball table, including our own. Of course we called the cops and without them, that idiot probably would have gotten away with it. Since that incident, said neighbors have been a little bit more docile as they were reminded that there are laws that restrict their actions somewhat.

Is there abuse of power by cops? Yeah, I think it is true that some cops do abuse their power at times. I think it is also wrong to generalize that all cops are evil, though. I also feel that oddly the nature of cops depends on the community you live in. To me it feels like the cops in some cities can be nice and helpful while in others it is almost like they act by a completely different moral code. It is probably wrong to generalize cops in that manner as well, but that has been my personal experience (that their "niceness" depends on city). But whether you've had good experiences with cops or bad experiences with cops, the truth is that without them you would be a lot worse off as the people around you would have no fear to keep them in check.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:48 pm

I've had two experiences with the police in my life: The first was after I was mugged when they were incredibly supportive and worked really hard to try and pick up the people involved. The second was when a lady was trying to blackmail a girl in to aborting what would have been her grandchild and again the police were incredibly helpful in removing the lady form campus. All in all whilst I don't doubt there are corrupt police out there those I've come to in to contact with are hard working, decent people trying to do the right thing.

Back to the original topic. I am against the legalisation of weed however DGL makes a good point when she compares it to tobacco and alcohol. Lets face it the only reason either of them are legal is because of the huge tax income they cause. Personally I would like to see smoking made illegal as well (obviously this would need to be phased in to stop a large percentage of the population becoming criminals over night).

My opinions on alcohol are more laisse-faire but I do think we should be far more careful in the way we treat alcoholism.

DZ also made a great point when he talked about the difference in countries and culture. We have a public healthcare system but with such an awesome privilege should also come some level of responsibility and not abusing your body in such a irresponsible way should come under that IMO.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Legal in the United States?

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:20 pm

See, I really want to agree with you, Shik, Jordan and Sun Fin. I'm not an anarchist. I believe that policing are necessary and useful, and I really want to believe that most policemen are decent human beings with a sincere interest in upholding the law.

But then I see stories like this. And this. And this. And I read statistics like these and these. Now, I know that these are from watchdog groups whose mission is to tackle police brutality and they have an interest in presenting the data in a certain way, but pace Shikanosuke, we're not just looking at a couple of 'individual cases' of rotten apples behaving badly, as even the UN Committee on Human Rights seems to acknowledge. The everyday comportment of police with regard to rule of law and basic human dignity has been demonstrably, systematically getting worse over the past twelve or thirteen years.

Again, I'm sympathetic to your lines of argument, Shik and Jordan. And I think DGL is far too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater in this case as in several others. But she does have a very valid point here. Governments tend to select for two 'ideal types' of people to do policing for them. The first kind is the person who genuinely believes in justice and does his job with not only a high respect but a passion for law and order. The second kind is your garden-variety prick who likes playing with handguns and Crown Vicks, and gets a thrill out of shoving (often brown) people face-down into the pavement. The second kind do have their uses, but usually only with the first kind looking over their shoulders! But our society seems to be selecting more and more for the second kind over the first.

And I think that is reason for concern.
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Re: Police

Unread postby Jordan » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:35 pm

They're not without their problems, and I do agree that there is sometimes an element of racism and brutality within the police force. Again, I still feel like a large part of it has to do with city. In some cities, the police are really out to get people. In some cities, the police are really out to get certain people. In other cities, though, the police are actually pretty nice people who are genuinely helpful. That has been my experience living in Southern California. I feel like it is also generally worse in larger cities than smaller ones. One of your articles mentions Fullerton which is in California but to be honest I'm not too familiar with the area. I recognize that police brutality has been a problem in California. It's not as big a problem in the specific area in which I live.

That having been said, even if there are a lot of problems with the police, I feel it'd be much worse without them. That would practically be anarchy as without some kind of way to enforce laws, people would break them openly. The very threat of punitive action by police keeps most people in line.
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