Rape Culture

Discuss events that have an impact on you and the world today. A home for honest, serious, and open discussion.

Rape Culture

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:01 pm

I don't actually know if the term 'rape culture' has spread beyond Great Britain yet?

This is one definition I found about it online:

Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. Rape culture is perpetuated through the use of misogynistic language, the objectification of women's bodies, and the glamorization of sexual violence, thereby creating a society that disregards women's rights and safety.


I'm sure that we all agree that anything that encourages rape is wrong.

The reason I started this thread is because a series of articles that are spreading across the internet at the moment. This is a prime example. Now I'm not entirely sure why but this makes me highly uncomfortable, that's at least partly because I hadn't thought about women being intimidated by every man they met when alone (I can relate as its a fear that I felt after I was mugged) but I think its also partly to do with the stereotyping carried out towards men in this view.

I guess I'm wanting to hear what you think about the article and see if any of you can articulate more fully why I'm feeling unease? I'm also interested to hear what are women members think and whether they agree with the assertions that the article makes.
Have a question about a book or academic article before you buy it? Maybe I have it!
Check out my library here for a list of Chinese history resources I have on hand!
User avatar
Sun Fin
Librarian of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: Vicar Factory

Rape Culture

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:59 pm

Sun Fin wrote:I don't actually know if the term 'rape culture' has spread beyond Great Britain yet?

This is one definition I found about it online:

Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. Rape culture is perpetuated through the use of misogynistic language, the objectification of women's bodies, and the glamorization of sexual violence, thereby creating a society that disregards women's rights and safety.


I'm sure that we all agree that anything that encourages rape is wrong.

The reason I started this thread is because a series of articles that are spreading across the internet at the moment. This is a prime example. Now I'm not entirely sure why but this makes me highly uncomfortable, that's at least partly because I hadn't thought about women being intimidated by every man they met when alone (I can relate as its a fear that I felt after I was mugged) but I think its also partly to do with the stereotyping carried out towards men in this view.

I guess I'm wanting to hear what you think about the article and see if any of you can articulate more fully why I'm feeling unease? I'm also interested to hear what are women members think and whether they agree with the assertions that the article makes.


I've read few things about rape culture in recent years. A lot if it centered around the Steubenville rape case (and others) and spoke pervasively about 's••• shaming'. I obviously find that shameful and dangerous behavior. I also agree with the the majority of the article, especially males assuming responsibility their actions as well as other males. If power brings responsibility then that responsibly should be ours.

The only things I get a little awkward on is when they talk about redefining masculinity and avoiding humor. I think both can be done correctly, and I can't count the amount of women who such jokes about men or other women.

Oh also gendered violence on tv. If tv is a place of fiction that often reflects reality I don't think it should intentionally obfuscate gendered violence on the hope it won't offend someone or magically solve gendered violence. It's a step away from censorship, and doesn't have much benefits ( to me). Please don't read that as me wanting to see women battered on tv.

But I've also realized in the past few years, to my consternation, that regardless of what I think I know of sexism I can't truly grasp the extent of it or truly be outside the problem. Being a man, and trying to act in what I believe Is a proper and just fashion as a man (even chivalrous), will inevitably be rooted in some vile ancient patriarchal culture I'm told I should be ashamed of. No sure if that makes sense.
User avatar
Shikanosuke
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 4371
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:22 am
Location: US

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:45 pm

Having been discussing this on Facebook I've firmed up my opinion a bit, this is part of my response to the link above when posted on a friends wall:

I fully accept that rape culture is a very real problem and something needs to be done about it and the author raises many valid points later in the article. However trying to make men feel guilty about being male (which is what I think the first paragraph is attempting) isn't the right way to go about solving this. I see little difference between blaming men for being men as I do blaming women for being raped because they're women. It instantly makes men feel like they are on the 'bad side' instead of motivating them to start tacking the issue.
Have a question about a book or academic article before you buy it? Maybe I have it!
Check out my library here for a list of Chinese history resources I have on hand!
User avatar
Sun Fin
Librarian of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: Vicar Factory

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:23 pm

Sun Fin wrote:Having been discussing this on Facebook I've firmed up my opinion a bit, this is part of my response to the link above when posted on a friends wall:

I fully accept that rape culture is a very real problem and something needs to be done about it and the author raises many valid points later in the article. However trying to make men feel guilty about being male (which is what I think the first paragraph is attempting) isn't the right way to go about solving this. I see little difference between blaming men for being men as I do blaming women for being raped because they're women. It instantly makes men feel like they are on the 'bad side' instead of motivating them to start tacking the issue.



Well, as a male I certainly sympathize with one point of your point. In many of my discussions with feminists I certainly feel that I'm immedietely on the defensive. I've literally been told I'm incapable (because I'm a male raised in this society) of understanding sexism or rape culture and that I need to check my 'male privilege' at the door'. And that may be valid, I'm not really sure. But the point is that how you want to get the point across to me? By likening my way of thinking with those who perpetrate despicable acts? Personally, I don't think its the best way even if the points are valid.

As for the analogy I'm not sure its exactly the same. Men and our culture are in many ways (to me) responsible for violence against women and its undeniable we possess advantages over females in the areas of physical strength and social position (neither of which I'm sure are entirely able of changing). I think the thing is they are blaming men for not recognizing the tendencies which develop in our upbringing and culture (i.e. we are entitled to X, we can use force to get X). Women have a voice in the 'women deserve to get raped' conversation, but they don't in the 'blaming men for being men convo'.

I'm not sure that last part is clear, but what I mean is men are in a position to discuss our 'culture' (which is a weird wording to me). I don't know, feel like we may need a female perspective to tell us how wrong we are (only partly jesting).
User avatar
Shikanosuke
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 4371
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:22 am
Location: US

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:23 pm

The two things that immediately popped into my head on seeing the thread title, 1) a survey in the Independent on sex-ed in UK that suggests at least a significant minority of teenage boys don't know the basics of rape. Like no means no. 2) The song "Blurred Lines" and how the song-writers and stars thought that was remotely ok.

Sun Fin wrote:The reason I started this thread is because a series of articles that are spreading across the internet at the moment. This is a prime example. Now I'm not entirely sure why but this makes me highly uncomfortable, that's at least partly because I hadn't thought about women being intimidated by every man they met when alone (I can relate as its a fear that I felt after I was mugged) but I think its also partly to do with the stereotyping carried out towards men in this view.


The article... I'm now unsure if, according to that article, I'm not male or several females I know aren't female. The bullet points are mostly excellent and the bullet-point of advice is good, the article runs the risk of ensuring people don't read it with eye-rolling over the top writing. It hampers itself really.

I'm not sure how many women are intimidated by every man they meet alone but I can certainly that there are circumstances for every woman where they might get nervous. I certainly don't think it hurts to try and put someone at their ease while men as a whole can do more to combat sexism and rape culture with their own ranks: calling up people who call woman slags or such like, acting as a guide to the young, stop peddling some of the old age myths and not being so permissive of certain behaviours.

Shi wrote:Well, as a male I certainly sympathize with one point of your point. In many of my discussions with feminists I certainly feel that I'm immedietely on the defensive. I've literally been told I'm incapable (because I'm a male raised in this society) of understanding sexism or rape culture and that I need to check my 'male privilege' at the door'. And that may be valid, I'm not really sure. But the point is that how you want to get the point across to me? By likening my way of thinking with those who perpetrate despicable acts? Personally, I don't think its the best way even if the points are valid.


I agree, that does nothing to help the cause they fight for. To a certain section of the population, it will confirm what they already believe about PC gone made, woman's rights gone too far and yada yada. Those that are quietly anti-rape will get upset and angry and those that want to help will be driven away. Encouragement would seem to be more helpful.

====

I'm not sure about rape culture but there is certainly an unhealthy and quite misogynistic culture in regards woman's bodies. One would have hoped that the younger generation, more used to woman's rights and so on, would be better placed then they seem to be. The may well be open to getting more woman at the top, to paternity leave and house husbands then those that came before when it comes to woman's bodies, we don't seem to have advanced much, if at all. Or what rape is and that clothing doesn't mean she had it coming.

Perhaps partly general complacency about feminism has conquered the great issues and is almost done. Certainly abysmal sex-ed thanks to parts of the country that seem stuck in the Carry On films mentality or those who deem updating sex-ed is moral deviousness itself. Teenagers will be teenagers and do stupid, potentially harmful things, and people doing worse things in a crowd is hardly a new phenomenon but if we can guide them on what rape is and busting the lies, on what to do and what not to do in relations, about the value of a human body, that could do a lot to help. I would also suggest a less... relaxed attitude by cultural insinuations: maybe if tv and radio channels had refused to play songs that glorified rape and refused to invite those that did it to awards or events for example.

Eurovision managed to curb, somewhat, the females stripping when it changed the voting system. It was an inadvertent boon but still a boon that "whichever female takes off most clothes and does sexy dance=win" has stopped. Movies and TV shows... I love that they are free to tackle darkest subjects or that they are free to use sex and nudity for story and character purposes. However it does get used for "look boobies", for simple titillation and one wonders how much damage this is doing to the culture, to the dis/respect for woman's bodies. I would hate, hate, hate to have to try and curb it, for any censorship would likely stop the good use of it as well, but wonder if we are coming, or have come, to the point where drastic steps may be required.
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 16770
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:05 am

Sun Fin wrote:I'm sure that we all agree that anything that encourages rape is wrong.

The reason I started this thread is because a series of articles that are spreading across the internet at the moment. This is a prime example. Now I'm not entirely sure why but this makes me highly uncomfortable, that's at least partly because I hadn't thought about women being intimidated by every man they met when alone (I can relate as its a fear that I felt after I was mugged) but I think its also partly to do with the stereotyping carried out towards men in this view.

I guess I'm wanting to hear what you think about the article and see if any of you can articulate more fully why I'm feeling unease? I'm also interested to hear what are women members think and whether they agree with the assertions that the article makes.


The article makes some very good points, and very correctly notes some widespread systemic ills to which men actively contribute, whether through ignorance or misguided passion or deliberate cruelty.

But even though the part of the issue it addresses is significant, it's still only a part of the problem. And Mr Burnett reads the history wrongly. 'Rape culture' is emphatically NOT merely the result of 'antiquated patriarchal notions of society'; in fact, it is the modern destruction of those patriarchal notions - in part due to democracy and feminism - which has allowed the ugly vestiges of male domination to step out of the socio-psychological background and poison the culture.

'Rape culture' - this complex of social expectations wherein men are expected to behave like the predators and conquerors of women - actually owes more to late capitalism and the dissolution of the social regulations of Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages on both male and female sexuality. These regulations actually helped men and women to build up senses of self-worth and virtue outside of sexual gamesmanship. As consumption replaced production (including re-production) as a marker of social worth, and as a radical Platonic, virtue-ethical worldview gave way to the postmodern shattering of ethical thought, men (and women, too!) have found themselves trapped in a culture that rewards brute sexual 'conquest' and devalues or even denigrates the relationships and emotional attachments associated with sex. I agree with Mr Burnett that men bear some responsibility for their own conduct in such a culture, and I think Mr Burnett gives some sound advice, but ultimately he's not building it up on any sort of real substantive value.

I tried getting at some of these issues in my latest piece at Solidarity Hall.
Some more blood, Chekov. The needle won't hurt, Chekov. Take off your shirt, Chekov. Roll over, Chekov. Breathe deeply, Chekov. Blood sample, Chekov! Marrow sample, Chekov! Skin sample, Chekov! If I live long enough... I'm going to run out of samples.
User avatar
WeiWenDi
Hedgehog Emperor
 
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:09 am
Location: L'Étoile du Nord

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:48 am

Tough issue for me with regard to the media as attempting to address it often morally intersects with issues of free speech. This became apparent to me when I took a class on the History of Women in the United States.

There is some residual culture of patriarchy in the Western world which leads to a persecutory society toward women. There is also inequality between men and women that persists today (in politics, the media, etc.). It's an issue that should be looked at more, but it's difficult to make changes to our society (outside of "consciousness raising") that do not have moral dubiousness attached.
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5902
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:01 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:The two things that immediately popped into my head on seeing the thread title, 1) a survey in the Independent on sex-ed in UK that suggests at least a significant minority of teenage boys don't know the basics of rape. Like no means no. 2) The song "Blurred Lines" and how the song-writers and stars thought that was remotely ok.


Spot on and many people who I thought better off (both male and female) treat ‘Blurred lines’ like a huge joke. Genuinely don’t understand how anyone can defend that song.

Dong Zhou wrote:The article... I'm now unsure if, according to that article, I'm not male or several females I know aren't female. The bullet points are mostly excellent and the bullet-point of advice is good, the article runs the risk of ensuring people don't read it with eye-rolling over the top writing. It hampers itself really.


I agree with this and since then I’ve made a conscious effort to stop using words like rape and to pull up guys when they’ve engaged in making jokes about rape culture.

Dong Zhou wrote:I'm not sure about rape culture but there is certainly an unhealthy and quite misogynistic culture in regards woman's bodies.


I think this runs both ways to be fair. In a culture where access to porn is getting ever easier and soft porn is displayed on shop counters brazenly (both semi-naked male and females) is it really surprising that we are more blazé about each other’s bodies?

Dong Zhou wrote:Perhaps partly general complacency about feminism has conquered the great issues and is almost done.


When you look at how far we've come (some of these posters genuinely made me feel physically sick the first time I saw them) it’s not that surprising that we've got complacent.

Dong Zhou wrote:Certainly abysmal sex-ed thanks to parts of the country that seem stuck in the Carry On films mentality or those who deem updating sex-ed is moral deviousness itself. Teenagers will be teenagers and do stupid, potentially harmful things, and people doing worse things in a crowd is hardly a new phenomenon but if we can guide them on what rape is and busting the lies, on what to do and what not to do in relations, about the value of a human body, that could do a lot to help. I would also suggest a less... relaxed attitude by cultural insinuations: maybe if tv and radio channels had refused to play songs that glorified rape and refused to invite those that did it to awards or events for example.


I don’t think sex-ed is awful because of fears over moral-deviousness; it’s awful because we’re British and we don’t like talking about sex. Ever. The sex-ed I received was ‘all is permissible as long as you wear a condom’ which is in no way the conservative message you implied. I do agree that we need to spell out what rape is in these things though and try and make a culture that’s more open about sex, even more the case I think we should encourage youngsters to discuss what is right and wrong instead of trying to force a world view (liberal, Christian or whatever) down their throat as you’re more likely to stick to a set of values if you understand the logic behind them.

***

Found this article, think it adds something to the conversation.
Have a question about a book or academic article before you buy it? Maybe I have it!
Check out my library here for a list of Chinese history resources I have on hand!
User avatar
Sun Fin
Librarian of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: Vicar Factory

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:46 pm

Sun Fin wrote:
Spot on and many people who I thought better off (both male and female) treat ‘Blurred lines’ like a huge joke. Genuinely don’t understand how anyone can defend that song.


Musically, it is a very catchy and brain inserting song that is very well performed. I just so wish the lyrics were not about rape

I think this runs both ways to be fair. In a culture where access to porn is getting ever easier and soft porn is displayed on shop counters brazenly (both semi-naked male and females) is it really surprising that we are more blazé about each other’s bodies?


It isn't much being blaze about human nudity, it is the misogynistic side of things. Porn, or at the least the ones the kids seem to learn from, does seem to be a problem in shaping attitudes and expectations


I don’t think sex-ed is awful because of fears over moral-deviousness; it’s awful because we’re British and we don’t like talking about sex. Ever. The sex-ed I received was ‘all is permissible as long as you wear a condom’ which is in no way the conservative message you implied. I do agree that we need to spell out what rape is in these things though and try and make a culture that’s more open about sex, even more the case I think we should encourage youngsters to discuss what is right and wrong instead of trying to force a world view (liberal, Christian or whatever) down their throat as you’re more likely to stick to a set of values if you understand the logic behind them.


When people suggest dealing with things like sexting or bringing sex education earlier, there get the moral devoiuss side of things in the counter arguments. I didn't mean to imply that the lessons themselves were conservative as such, more timid (in the not engaging way), unhelpful and behind the times.

Found this article, think it adds something to the conversation.

[/quote]

I found it challenged a quiet assumption of mine of how romance worked. :oops:
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 16770
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Rape Culture

Unread postby Human5 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:25 am

If you ask me, "rape culture" is something made up by extreme feminists.
Human5
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:58 pm

Next

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved

 
cron