2016 US Presidential Election Speculation

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Wed May 07, 2014 6:42 am

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:I doubt they'll get progressive in my life time. I'm already 33. They just took up the new mantle with the Tea Party, and that was only a huge step backward. I don't like how they deal with economics or social issues. Heck, they just stopped the federal minimum wage increase, despite the fact that most jobs don't pay a living wage. I despise almost everything they stand for.


The Tea Party doesn't deal with social issues. They're a bit more conservative on social issues than the average voter, but they really don't seem to care that much. That said, I agree with you that their economic views are completely off-base. In terms of their favoured political remedies, they are extremists. The Republican Party as a whole, though, seems to be getting more and more liberal on social issues (see here, here and here).

Personally, though, I won't vote for any Republican, or for that matter any Democrat, who doesn't make a point in the campaign of significantly turning America's foreign policy toward something more peaceful. If it comes down to a Clinton versus Bush ticket, I'll just be voting Green.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby Jordan » Thu May 08, 2014 9:27 am

I tend to be more interested in foreign policy as well. It's an area where different views aren't really well represented by the 2 political choices available. Democrats in the Cold War were as hawkish as Republicans. Things haven't changed substantially since then. Barack Obama, to my initial surprise, ended up being pretty interventionist. When Kerry ran against Bush, one of his big flaws was that his stance on the Iraq War was either vague or equivalent to his opponent's. Where are the politicians who would institute diplomacy over force, multilateralism over unilateralism, caution over involvement and discourse over willfulness?

Beyond foreign policy, I just kind of care more about social issues than the economy. I feel more or less like a libertarian overall, but libertarian politics have shifted toward economic libertarianism at the expense of social libertarianism. This bothers me (not because I inherently dislike economic libertarianism but because I don't like social issues receiving short shrift). Clinton's stance on social issues like gun control and censorship worries me. I respect her as a strong, independent woman who is also really highly intelligent and articulate unlike, say, Sarah Palin. I just...don't really completely like her politics. Republicans, meanwhile, always worry me because their base has a huge evangelical component and they're always compelled to pander to them somewhat.

Meh.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Tue May 13, 2014 2:24 am

The reason I put social issues above economic issues is because money and economy doesn't mean a dang thing if you don't have the freedom and liberty to enjoy them.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby Jordan » Thu May 15, 2014 4:30 pm

It also goes without saying that as a Californian, I see little incentive to vote anyways.

The eventual Republican and Democrat presidential candidates will spend a day to a week in California and then promptly evacuate after realizing that California is a "blue state" because of the electoral college. Regardless of whether Democrats get 90% of the vote in California or 50.00000001%, they'll get all the votes in this state because that's how the electoral college system works.

The two Presidential candidates will then spend the vast majority of the rest of their campaign time in states like Ohio, Florida and puny states like Delaware promising vast improvements to those states. The uncertainty of the votes of these states in our retarded electoral college system means that something is on the line for candidates to actually bother with them. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans will offer anything to California because California doesn't matter. It's a "given" state that is simply irrelevant as far as political strategy.

Ergo, the third largest and first most populous state in the Union will be ignored. Completely. For the entire duration of the campaign cycle. If Puerto Rico was ever added as a state, the candidates would likely make more promises to the people there than to the people of California. They'd also fly in to San Juan 3-10 times for every time they flew in to Los Angeles.

This is the system of Democracy we have contrived for our country.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Thu May 15, 2014 10:17 pm

I agree, Jordan. The Electoral College needs to go. Heck, not having the Electoral College would have saved us from George W. Bush!

Honestly, it's an antiquated institution that lost all of its need a century ago. The absolute only purpose, originally, was to make voting easier. Back then, we didn't have television or telephones or the internet or any way to rapidly transfer information from one place to another. This, however, is the Information Age. We have enough ways to move data quickly that the Electoral College serves no actual purpose.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri May 16, 2014 9:24 am

Jordan wrote:This is the system of Democracy we have contrived for our country.


We have the same problem, where area's of the country aren't bothered with by politicians because they could put Jack the Ripper in the seat, put the right rosette on, put a token amount of money into seat and he would win. Against Mother Theresa.

Are there electoral systems out there where every area of the country is up for grabs, where parties have to fight for every seat?
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri May 16, 2014 9:44 am

Proportional Representation? :P

I think our system is slightly better than America's on this front though. We vote for a party rather than for a President and therefore we're voting for our local MPs who do have a stake in supporting us even in a safe seat. Does that make sense?
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby Liu Yuante » Fri May 16, 2014 1:50 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
Jordan wrote:This is the system of Democracy we have contrived for our country.


We have the same problem, where area's of the country aren't bothered with by politicians because they could put Jack the Ripper in the seat, put the right rosette on, put a token amount of money into seat and he would win. Against Mother Theresa.

Are there electoral systems out there where every area of the country is up for grabs, where parties have to fight for every seat?


There are some states in the U.S. that have adopted a model where different areas of the state can go to different candidates. My original home state, Nebraska, is one of those (the other is Maine). In 2008, the district comprising the city of Omaha went to Obama, while the rest of the state went to McCain. It was the first time an electoral college vote from Nebraska went to a Democrat since the early 60's.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Fri May 16, 2014 6:23 pm

It would be easier to compare other nations' systems if you guys told us which other nations you're from. :P
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Election speculation

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri May 16, 2014 7:11 pm

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:It would be easier to compare other nations' systems if you guys told us which other nations you're from. :P


Sorry, most of us have been around so long that we just presume that everyone knows where we're from. Both Dong and I are from Great Britain (not England for the time being as for 2 more months I live in Wales).
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