Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:53 pm

Fair point, I think this tells us a lot about how the established parties and media want us to view UKIP. Regardless of whether that is the truth or not. I guess any further development of this conversation should probably go in to the UK politics thread though.
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Boydie » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:10 pm

The Royal Air Force has sent Typhoon jets are to patrol the skies over the Baltic. Other NATO members have done the same. The Typhoons and other NATO jets will be based at Siauliai in Lithuania for the time being.
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:06 pm

The situation in Crimea has evolved into a greater attempt by Russia to annex pro-Russian Eastern Ukraine. There have also been stirrings of the de facto independent but nominally Moldovan region of Transnistria joining Russia.

Will the story end at nationalism or is there greater ambitions at play here?
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Boydie » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:47 pm

It looks like utter chaos in the Ukraine, protesters are now arming themselves with knifes, riot shields and guns.

I think the soldiers being sent east are being put into an impossible position. There doesn't seem to be enough of them to overwhelm the crowds without shooting people, and if they shoot people who are just standing around talking to them they'll be hung out to dry by the political leadership in Kiev.

The problem is political. Where are the politicians?
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Jordan » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:14 am

It seems as if members of the US, European Union, Ukraine and Russia met and peaceably decided on some solutions to the ongoing tensions in Eastern Ukraine. It doesn't seem like Russia is going to press its nationalistic casus belli on Ukraine after all.
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:16 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-vog ... lp00000592

Another interesting update: Biden went in front of Ukraine's government and explicitly said they needed to do something about the corruption problems within the country.

It has always been a flaw of US foreign policy that we provide material support to autocratic and/or corrupt regimes without any real strings attached. But if the goal of US foreign policy is global stability, propping up a corrupt government without trying to reform its issues is antithetical to the cause as an unpopular government can easily be unstable.
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby Boydie » Fri May 02, 2014 2:22 pm

So one Vyacheslav Ponomarev, quondam soap manufacturer and currently Grand High Poobah of the pro-Russian separatists controlling the delightful town of Slavyansk in enchanting East Ukraine, has detained a busload from OSCE - four observers, respectively a Danish, a Czech, a Polish and a German officer, a German interpreter and three German Army security folk. He feels that they are probably spies as they were wearing military uniform and carrying military ID and that therefore he is fully justified in holding them.

Unsurprisingly, the Russians, the real ones, just the other side of the border, are not very impressed with Gospodin Ponomarev and appear to be making efforts to get these guys released.

For sheer imbecility, lifting a Boche and a Polack when they're precisely the people the Russians are not looking to upset, takes some beating. :lol:
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby bodidley » Fri May 16, 2014 6:05 am

It's somewhat absurd to view the crisis in Ukraine as simply Russian expansionism. Frankly, Eastern European states and their citizens within the EU do not have the same rights as Western European states, and states that fall outside the limits of the EU's borders have to negotiate their trade rights from an extremely weak position. The whole situation in Ukraine looks a lot like the situation in Yugoslavia 20 years ago, when Western European powers were prepared to provoke any chaos necessary simply so that a few businesses could profit from the privatization of socialist companies. How can anyone seriously say they didn't see this coming? When one side in a democracy uses force to get its way, the other side can no longer trust the democratic process. Imagine the chaos that would happen if protestors overthrew the president in the U.S. Not like that would happen though, since our government would just massacre people trying to overthrow it.
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Re: Obama vs. Putin - Ukraine a Modern Day Guan Du?

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:30 pm

I'd say a better comparison is with Hitler's early expansions. Sure, there was grumbling, but the policy of appeasement was the primary one. Same thing is happening now. Everyone already knows how utterly evil and sadistic Putin is, given his history of human rights violations. I can easily see this turning into World War III.
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