Habemus Papam

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Habemus Papam

Unread postby Aygor » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:18 pm

The Conclave elected Pope Francesco, first of his name, born Jorge Bergoglio in Buenos Aires in 1936 (age 76).

Finally a pope from South America: it was about time that a church which claim to be universal elected the Holy Father from the continent with most Catholics rather than Europe; I also like the fact that for the third time in a row the pope is not Italian (even though his family is, but that's pretty common in Argentina).

The name he chose is new and interesting: it hints at the necessity of a renewal which may mean removal as the former archbishop of Buenos Aires never hid his hostility for the sycophants and the greedy factions of the Roman Curia.
Last edited by Aygor on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:20 pm

From what I've heard and read so far he seems to be a good appointment.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby SunXia » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:17 pm

Considering his humble lifestyle and his cry out during the previous conclave, I have to say Pope Francis reminds me somewhat of Saint Celestine or Celestine V!! Now he was a Pope determined to stay with his humble origins!! Of course, I hope Francis is a man of action if taking the Catholic Church forward!!
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:25 pm

That was surprisingly quick.

Sun Fin wrote:From what I've heard and read so far he seems to be a good appointment.


Seems my impression as well. It will help that he comes in with a wave of good feeling (very different from the attitudes to his predecessor got from day 1) due to his record and nationality, plus is going to be seen as clean from the scandals already revealed and likely to be revealed. The church will likely get damaged but the Pope should be able to rise above it. Seems the right Pope for a time when tensions are increasing and economy is bad, just wondering how he will deal with the internal politics of the Vatican.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:53 pm

The main worry I've heard here is that he will try and use his influence to force the Falkland Island issue.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:12 pm

Sun Fin wrote:The main worry I've heard here is that he will try and use his influence to force the Falkland Island issue.


That might be excessive naval gazing I suspect. Mood in Argentina might be more confident on a number of issues or about themselves becuase of this though.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:29 pm

I'm a huge St. Francis of Assisi fan so this is awesome.

I'm a bit cautious saying this, because I don't know how much influence he has over the Curia and the internal politics of the Vatican, but it sure is nice to think that there will be a perspective from outside Europe. I'm also cautiously optimistic about reforms--not sweeping ones and certainly not ones that have to do with doctrine, but about bringing the Church back to its roots of serving the poor and poor in spirit.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:20 pm

If I'm reading his views correctly, he is anti-gay marriage but all for accepting homosexuals into the church? Also he is for same-sex adoption and yet against distribution of contraceptives?
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:58 pm

Shikanosuke wrote:If I'm reading his views correctly, he is anti-gay marriage but all for accepting homosexuals into the church? Also he is for same-sex adoption and yet against distribution of contraceptives?


No he described same-sex adoption as discrimination against children. However the 'anti-gay marriage but all for accepting homosexuals into the church' has been the churches line for a while.

I hate the contraception issue; if you are going to listen to the Pope about not using contraception then you should also be listening to the Pope on not having sex outside of marriage. If that was the case then aids wouldn’t be an issue, of course it’s not going to work if you only chose to follow some of what the Pope says. That said I’m not Catholic and I don’t mind the use of certain kinds of contraception.

As Lady Wu said he is a conservative in terms of doctrinal issues however he places far greater emphasis on issues like poverty which is something that the Church needs. As important as teaching on sexual morality is it’s no more important than teaching on money yet it’s not something that is reflected, well certainly not by the media presentation of the church. How widely known is it that pretty much every Anglican church gives 10% of its income to charities for example? On that note I wonder if the media will allow him to pursue a poverty driven agenda when they can continue pushing anti-Catholic headlines about abortion and homosexuality that will sell much better.
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Re: Habemus Papam

Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:21 pm

Sun Fin is right. The Church's line on homosexuality has been:

- Homosexual activities are wrong.
- Homosexuals are not bad people.
- Homosexuals need to be treated with respect and compassion just like everyone else.

The logic behind that is at least partially that the male and female anatomies were made to make children. Therefore, their use outside the context of procreation is against nature and against God. This has also been cited as the reason against contraceptives.

The thing is, there are many kinds of contraceptives. I think there will always be a hard line drawn at Plan B and other contraceptive measures that aim to prevent implantation or induce early miscarriage. It is simply not compatible with the Church's beliefs on when life begins and the dignity of each life. There may be some wiggle-room when it comes to condoms especially for AIDS/STD transmission, because at least it wouldn't be an issue about terminating a life.

The thing with the media is that they don't like positive things. They like negative things, and the more shocking the better. Things like pedophile scandals and conspiracy theories and sexual morality sell a lot better than stories of people who spend their lives helping those shunned by society, or the vowed religious who truly live by their vows of poverty.
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